Is there any reason to avoid a 1980 SC ROW?

epinfren · 10-04-2016, 10:42 AM

I apologize if this has been asked numerous times but I just spent the last few hours performing multiple advanced searches and reading through various threads but was unable to come up with a definitive answer.

I'm currently in the market for my first 911. Honestly I've been in the market for well over two years now but I'm so damn picky that I haven't found anything that checks all the boxes. I've recently uncovered a 1980 SC ROW. The good is that its a color I've been particularly fond of for awhile, it's a one owner car with only about 80k miles and from the pictures it appears to have been well kept. The bad is that it hasn't operated much at all over the last four years and is in need of the head stud job and likely a complete top end rebuild at minimum.

My first main question is the topic title. Is there anything to really be concerned with regarding the 1980 model? The reason I ask is because after looking over Simon's chart: Simon's Porsche 911 SC Site

it appears as though the 1980 ROW is a bit of an enigma. That same year the NA model received the bump in compression from the 78/79 models but the ROW for some reason didn't get it until 1981. Strangely it shows a slight increase from 8:5:1 to 8:6:1 and a bump from 180 to 188hp however this is the only year for that particular compression and hp rating.

Was this year just a random one off thing for Porsche on the ROW only? I'm curious as to why the NA model received the bump in compression but the ROW not until 81. Is this a certain year that I should avoid for any reason or is it just Porsche being Porsche in 1980?

My second question is regarding value. Knowing it likely needs a top end rebuild at minimum, and probably needs a complete suspension refresh as well, what would be a fair starting point for offers considering the labor needed plus 80k miles already on the car? I imagine I would be looking at putting a minimum of $10k in to car if I paid someone else to do the labor. Exactly how much could I save rebuilding the motor myself?

javadog · 10-04-2016, 11:00 AM

The only thing that would concern me is rust. If the car spent any significant time in Europe before it was imported, check it closely. Even 5 years over there might be cause for concern.

The ROW cars always had more torque than US cars, so don't get too hung up on the HP rating. Porsche changed little things about every year, that's just the way they were in those days.

$10K won't be enough for both a top-end engine rebuild and a complete suspension rebuild (which for me, at least, would include the brakes.) I'd budget about $15k.

I wouldn't suggest that you tackle this yourself.

JR

epinfren · 10-04-2016, 11:10 AM

Appreciate the feedback JR. I've been told zero rust but based on age I would most definitely schedule a PPI prior to any hand shaking in order to confirm this.

I was kind of worried about that $10k figure not being enough. $15k would be optimal. Seeing really well sorted SC's sell currently for $30-35k range it would be hard for me to offer this gentleman more than $15-20k in its current state. I'm not sure that would be enough to sway him and any higher than that and I would feel like I'm getting too close to a decent 964/993 in pricing after factoring in the rebuild costs.

Bob Kontak · Bob Kontak's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by epinfren

I was kind of worried about that $10k figure not being enough. $15k would be optimal. Seeing really well sorted SC's sell currently for $30-35k range it would be hard for me to offer this gentleman more than $15-20k in its current state.

Good luck with that.

You are making the assumption it needs a top end rebuild and suspension refresh. (although most do, even puff garage queens)

$15k repairs is javadog's number for farming it out to someone very competent. Seems reasonable.

However, if I were a seller of a nice SC, I would balk at your $15k offer simply because you do not want to suffer a downside.

Just a data point, Bro. Nothing else. Be prepared for battle. I say low to mid 20's sounds fair from a buyer's perspective. High 20's from seller's. You could drive it for five years before anything at all is required. It is a used car.

Also, an 1980 ROW will walk my 81 US even with it's higher compression.

epinfren · 10-04-2016, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

Good luck with that.

You are making the assumption it needs a top end rebuild and suspension refresh. (although most do, even puff garage queens)

$15k repairs is javadog's number for farming it out to someone very competent. Seems reasonable.

However, if I were a seller of a nice SC, I would balk at your $15k offer simply because you do not want to suffer a downside.

Just a data point, Bro. Nothing else. Be prepared for battle. I say low to mid 20's sounds fair from a buyer's perspective. High 20's from seller's. You could drive it for five years before anything at all is required. It is a used car.

Also, an 1980 ROW will walk my 81 US even with it's higher compression.

Thank you for that data point Bob.

I can't say that I disagree with you on anything. I'm willing to stomach a reasonable downside, say $5k or so, but if the numbers start looking like there's a potential for a $10k+ hole I'll simply continue to hold out. I don't see a situation where I would be willing to go high 20's considering the mileage and amount of time it has sat. The driver SC isn't a $40k car, at least yet.

Bob Kontak · Bob Kontak's Garage

I read your first post again. Head stud issues. Fix is mandatory.

997at · 10-04-2016, 04:33 PM

For what its worth as a reference point I bought my 82 US SC early this year for $39K. 76K miles, top end and gearbox recently completed, nicely optioned car, all original. Interior in beautiful condition (no dash cracks) and exterior front end freshly repainted glass out the proper way. That being said, I am putting money into it to get it perfect…..replaced CDI with MSD, new distributor, etc……… At the end of the day I may have overpaid, but there were 3 guys lined up behind me to pay the same or more and I wanted this car……colors, options etc. worked for me.

tyro · 10-04-2016, 05:33 PM

I have an '80 ROW non-sunroof coupe and wouldn't have it any other way. I drive the piss out of it, even if it has a little rust. So what. I'd rather it be a bit ratty and drive it instead of keeping it as an "investment". To each his own.

sugarwood · sugarwood's Garage

You've been shopping for 2 years, and passed on everything since you're too picky, but now you're looking at a car that needs engine work? What gives? Capitulating ?

RSBob · RSBob's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarwood

You've been shopping for 2 years, and passed on everything since you're too picky, but now you're looking at a car that needs engine work? What gives? Capitulating ?

Hey just wait a minute buddy! My job is to point out inconsistencies and I am so glad you beat me to it.

captain hook · 10-04-2016, 06:52 PM

If it's a car you like just buy it. So what if they trade in the mid 30s. They probably need 10 to 15 k too. Just go for it the extra bit of cash will be forgotten about when your enjoying it. Not directed at you but not Everthing has to have a dollar figure attached to it.

Josh D · Josh D's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyro

I have an '80 ROW non-sunroof coupe and wouldn't have it any other way. I drive the piss out of it, even if it has a little rust. So what. I'd rather it be a bit ratty and drive it instead of keepineg it as an "investment". To each his own.

Me too! (Except the rust part) love my car. After five years of ownership, I couldn't imagine having bought a different one. Although lower in compression than the later US spec SC's, they retained the bigger intake port heads and intake runners. and respond very well to an early exhaust upgrade.

javadog · 10-05-2016, 05:56 AM

It's been my experience that owners will never allow you to deduct all of the anticipated repair costs from their idea of market value. This is why it is better to buy a perfect car, if you can find one, as there is a ceiling on prices for any model and less spread between that ceiling and your ulimate total investment for cars with fewer needs.

There are a couple scenarios where I'd be willing to put more money into this car than what the math would tell you is smart.

If this is really a one-owner car, was it brought over here when new, or did it spend a few years in Europe? If it came here when new, it likely has less potential for rust than most ROW cars. That's a big deal and it's the first thing I'd check.

If it is a coupe (which is now the only body style I'd buy) it may not have a sunroof. For me, that would be a big plus..

Since it is a ROW car, it may never have had A/C. That would also be a big plus for me.

You've mentioned the interesting color, does it also have an out-of-the-ordinary interior?

More details would be useful to know...

JR

sugarwood · sugarwood's Garage

Java, do you prefer coupe because of body flex or some other reason?

Why do you prefer a car that never had AC vs. simply removed?

javadog · 10-06-2016, 06:07 AM

Coupes are lighter, tighter, better-looking and they handle better. If I wanted an open Porsche, I'd buy a Boxster.

A car that never had A/C doesn't have the numerous holes from the A/C installation and the ventilation controls and plumbing are different. The engine will have run cooler it's whole life and been subjected to less vibration, in the case of the older cars with reciprocating compressors.

JR