Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > Porsche 911 Technical Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 2 votes, 3.00 average.
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Administrator
 
Jack Olsen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 13,193
Fuchs History

Paraphrased from Porsche 911: Forever Young, by Tobias Aichele:

Otto Fuchs Metallwerke had made forged wheels for armored military vehicles for Porsche during the war. So it made sense for Porsche to contact the same company when they came up with the idea of creating light alloy wheels for their 911 production car in the mid-60's. Fuchs representative Herr Kretsch offered Porsche something beyond their expectations, though: the possibility of mass-producing a high quality forged alloy wheel.

Nothing on this scale had ever been attempted in Germany.

Heinrich Klie of the Porsche model department (the early version of the styling studio) was given the task of styling the wheel. He became the 'father' of the Fuchs wheel. He is also responsible for a number of 911 design details, including the complete dashboard.

Klie and his team were given no precise instructions for the wheel, so he simply went to work with Plasticine modeling clay and came up with a design. Where styling assignments would typically involve weeks of trial and error, changes, and new revisions, this wasn't the case with the Fuchs wheel. The first model was shown to Ferry Porsche, who approved it "with a wave of a hand," according to Klie.



It then went to the suspension design department, where engineer Rudolf Hoffmann was responsible for the wheel's physical properties. Minor modifications were made.

From there, Fuchs chief engineer Karl-Heinz Ochel had to oversee a whole new process for manufacturing the wheel. 58 steps were required to make a single Fuchs wheel.

Quote:
From Porsche 911: Forever Young, by Tobias Aichele
"To be precise, the Fuchs wheel was formed by the following steps. A pressed piece of stock was forged to make a forging blank. Next, drop forging the blank produced the ventilation holes and deburred the flange. A further drop forging step resulted in a split flange, before the workpiece was widened by rolling. And here is the secret advantage of this complex manufacturing process: the Fuchs wheel stayed in production for so many years because it could be rolled to any width desired. The forming process resulted in a wheel with a completely finished inner side. The outer, visible side of the wheel was turned on special lathes, which resulted in the smallest possible wheel imbalance. A carefully developed surface finish -- polishing, anodizing, and painting -- permitted different design variations over the years and assured high corrosion resistance."


After being tested directly on numerous cars, some very minor changes were made, and the wheels were offered on the 1967 models. There was some internal controversy in the company over the design itself, but the marketing people prevailed in support of the wheel, and history proved them correct. The wheel became a runaway success and remained a design fixture on the 911 for 20 years.

(Image quality is only so-so because I don't have a scanner. I used a digital camera.)
Old 01-07-2003, 01:49 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
Buy them, sell them
 
Adam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Melbourne, AU
Posts: 4,154
Garage
Jack, that's pretty interesting. Thanks for posting it.

I'm surprised that the Fuchs alloy was the first design made. The dismissive "wave of the hand" seems to go against all of the ingrained engineering and styling forethought that we hear and read about Ferry Porsche.
__________________
1968 Ford Mustang Fastback
1985 BMW E28 M5 Clone
1989 911 Carrera 3.2 Cab
Old 01-07-2003, 02:11 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
Moderator
 
Don Plumley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Geyserville, CA
Posts: 6,920
Garage
Interesting story - thanks for posting this!

Don
__________________
Don Plumley
M235i
memories: 87 911, 96 993, 13 Cayenne
Old 01-07-2003, 02:38 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
Registered User
Interesting story. Does Porsche still forge stock wheels for there cars? I'm in the dark as to how their late model wheels are manufactured.
__________________
Warren & Ron, may you rest in Peace.
Old 01-07-2003, 02:44 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
B58/732
 
BlueSkyJaunte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Hot as Hell, AZ
Posts: 12,313
Wasn't there a Fuchs article similar to this in Excellence about a year ago? Anyone remember? I'm at work and unable to access my library.
__________________
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
I don't always talk to vegetarians--but when I do, it's with a mouthful of bacon.
Old 01-07-2003, 02:44 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
what? me worry?
 
TimT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Wantagh, NY
Posts: 7,099
Yes Excellence had article a few years ago about fuchs wheels, Ive seen both photos before.

Its reall cool how it goes from a slug of metal to a finished wheel, 58 steps!!! no wonder they are costly ( love my 7&9's)
__________________
who are those guys? <<< ( Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid)
Rent a GT3RS from us!! Call or e-mail.
Transportation and Track support
Rudtners Racing

'69 911 GT-5
'75 914 GT-3
Authorised Haltech seller and installer
Authorised Unichip installer
BBS wheels
Fikse wheels
Redline motors oils
Swepco
1500 hp chassis dyno
Old 01-07-2003, 03:00 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
 
Somewhere in the Midwest
 
MotoSook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: In the barn!
Posts: 12,498
Nice post. I swear I saw a video sometime ago that showed a more detailed series of wheels in the making that really left an impression in my mind. I thought it was pretty amazing how they spun and pulled the wheels to the desired width.

So I wonder where the tooling for the wheels are? In some museum or sitting in some guys barn waiting to be discovered and put back into action. Then modern metallurgy can surely be put to better use.

And check out that 60'd hottie in the picture.
Old 01-07-2003, 03:31 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
dtw dtw is offline
GAFB
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Raleigh, NC, USA
Posts: 7,817
Quote:
Originally posted by RickM
Interesting story. Does Porsche still forge stock wheels for there cars? I'm in the dark as to how their late model wheels are manufactured.
Fuchs is still producing small batches of forged alloys for Porsche. It is said that Wheel Enhancement buys all the production. Don't know if that's true. That said, I believe most production Fuchs sizes can still be ordered from you friendly neighborhood Porsche dealer parts counter.
__________________
'72 911T MFI VW Silver Metallic
'01 996tt Lapis Blue
Lots of BMWs
Old 01-07-2003, 03:56 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
Administrator
 
Jack Olsen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 13,193
That's Klie with the wheel, and Butzi holding the rim section. I think everyone else was in the room because word had gotten out that there was going to be a female in the meeting.
Old 01-07-2003, 04:00 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
Mark Wilson
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Great story Jack, thanks.
Old 01-07-2003, 04:06 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Galivants Ferry, SC
Posts: 10,549
All modern Porsche wheels are cast...likely vacuum or pressure process. ....but not forged.
Cast wheels can be made strong...they just won't be as light for the same strength.
Counter-point.... thre is an interesting story in one of the Up-Fixin volumes ( somehwere !) that deals with large scale production of forged, laced ( BBS style) wheels made in Cleveland for Ford...for the Crown Vic's and such...

---Wil Ferch
__________________
Wil Ferch
85 Carrera ( gone, but not forgotten )
Old 01-07-2003, 05:49 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
Registered User
 
beamonk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Tuscaloosa Al
Posts: 1,175
Send a message via AIM to beamonk
I saw a show on the wheels being made a year ago or so. I think it was on speedvision.
John
__________________
John Brasfield
91 C2
78 SC For sale
76 3.6
68 Datsun 2000 Mr. Magoo, 02 330ci
Old 01-07-2003, 06:19 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Tim Walsh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Green-Salem, NC
Posts: 3,914
Garage
Send a message via AIM to Tim Walsh
wow.. nice post.. I always wondered where they come from..
__________________
Tim
1973 911T
2005 VW GTI
"Dave, hit the brakes, but don't look like your htting the brakes...what? I DON'T KNOW, BRAKE CASUAL!!!" dtw's thoughts after nearly rear ending a SHP officer
Old 01-07-2003, 06:31 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Concord NC
Posts: 2,099
That looks like Ferry holding the wheel section and Butzi is to left and next to the woman
__________________
Dr. Osidak
78 Euro 911sc Targa
03 Hayden
SCWDP
South East Region
Old 01-07-2003, 06:31 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #14 (permalink)
Registered User
 
rs911t's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Leesburg, VA
Posts: 1,206
Garage
Quote:
Ferry holding the wheel section
Where's his right hand?

That's very cool. Has anyone seen the machinary they used? That itself must be amazing. Thanks.
__________________
Greg
1972 911T
TrackVision
Old 01-07-2003, 06:45 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #15 (permalink)
Administrator
 
Jack Olsen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 13,193
The rolling machines were made by the Kieserling company of Esslingen, which is near Stuttgart.

I may have Ferry and Butzi confused.

Last edited by Jack Olsen; 01-07-2003 at 07:16 PM..
Old 01-07-2003, 07:09 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #16 (permalink)
Registered User
 
autobonrun's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Kansas
Posts: 1,728
Garage
Great story thanks.

I'm always interested in history, especially Porsche history. I was thinking earlier it would be a good series if Excellence could do these type stories in their magazine every so often. Imagine the stories out there if the editor could hook up with some retired Porsche engineers from the 60's and 70's. I'd like to know some of the thought processes behind the designs we see; kind of a Paul Harvey 'rest of the story' thing.
Old 01-07-2003, 08:22 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #17 (permalink)
Automotive Monomaniac
 
Emission's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Newbury Park, CA
Posts: 4,207
Garage
One nice thing about a forged wheel vs. cast wheel... during an impact, the cast wheel will crack and break (or worse, shatter). A forged wheel will bend. Many times this can mean the difference between losing the tire and wheel (and control) and coming safely to a stop.
__________________
2012 - Porsche Boxster Spyder 6MT / 2018 - Porsche 911 Carrera 7MT / 2018 - Porsche Macan 7DCT / 2018 - Volkswagen GTI 6MT / 2012 -BMW 330Ci ZHP 6MT
Old 01-07-2003, 11:41 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #18 (permalink)
 
Nice guy eddie
 
speeder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: los angeles, CA.
Posts: 31,715
Garage
Going a little nuts at home with your great library and no 911 to drive there, Jack? Great post though, right up there with Cegerer and Warren's scanner sessions. Fuchs are the zenith of quality for production car wheels, (maybe production car parts ), like the basic 911 shape they cannot be improved upon, IMO.

Incidentally, I have a Fuchs toothbrush, made in Germany and purchased at Rite Aid, excellent quality. I wondered if it was another division of the same company, they have to keep busy making something since the (sad) demise of their wheel operation.
__________________
Denis
"It was either Voltaire or Charlie Sheen who said, 'We are born alone. We live alone. We die alone. And anything in between that can give us the illusion that we're not, we cling to.'" -
-- Gabriel byrne

Last edited by speeder; 01-08-2003 at 01:32 AM..
Old 01-08-2003, 01:25 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #19 (permalink)
Registered User
 
smestas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Santa Clarita, CA
Posts: 871
Garage
Send a message via AIM to smestas Send a message via Yahoo to smestas
Jack,

Thanks for the post! Knowing more history about the cars we drive just makes me enjoy the ride that much more. Awesome post.
__________________
Simon Mestas
'78SC Coupe
My Pelican Page | AlfaBB - Alfa Romeo Forum
Old 01-08-2003, 02:47 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #20 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:38 AM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.