Solenoid issue? Not sure.

[bobswei]

I recently cleaned up my starter motor, since the engine was out, and reinstalled everything. Now, the starter wont spin. Solenoid kicks in but gear wont turn. I took out the starter and hooked it up to a battery with jumpers. The gear will spin if you touch the connector closest to the motor but wont spin if you touch to the main power terminal. Before I buy a new solenoid, I though I'd run it past the pelican crew. So, it seems, half the solenoid works ( the pushing the gear out half) and half does not work, (passing the current from one terminal to the other). Sound right?
Thanks for any input...

[T77911S]

what did you do for your rebuild?

take a look at this

SOLENOID and STARTER rebuild......finally

[bobswei]

The rebuild was a complete engine overhaul. Cases apart, bearings, rings, etc... The starter, I cleaned it up, sanded and sprayed cleaner on it.
Looks like a good link you sent. I'll take a look tonight, after work, and see where it takes me.
Thanks.

[bobswei]

OK, I followed the steps of rebuilding/cleaning the solenoid and it still does the same thing. I will order a new solenoid tomorrow.
By the way, the steps to take apart the solenoid were fairly easy. Easier than the read.
Thanks, Bob

[timmy2]

Fully charged, correct amperage battery?
Had someone with a new harness having that exact same problem
Yesterday. Small battery in the car, he used a good fully charged full size battery and the starter kicked right in.

[T77911S]

all a solenoid is is a giant hi current relay.,
if the 2 contacts inside are clean, its just a matter of the solenoid pulling all the way in.
first, did it work before you took it apart?
is the solenoid binding up
as above, good battery
the power TO the solenoid needs to be good as in good wires and connections
good ground. very often over looked. clean them all
is it connected properly.

don't know the year of the car but some solenoids have multiple connections, only one will work.

pull the solenoid off and apply power, the plunger should pull in.
is the starter binding up, not as in turning but as in is the gear able to move properly.

[bobswei]

Yes, everything worked perfect before taking it apart. Same battery and wiring. And, as I put all connections together, I cleaned with wire wheel on a drill. The solenoid goes in and out ok, just doesn't pass the current from the power side to the motor side. I did think of the battery being weak and old so had it on the charger and also jumped off my commute car battery. Always, same result. If I could connect power to the motor side, it would work but I'd be driving down the street with the starter motor spinning all the time.
Anyway, I won't be able to look at it again till tomorrow so I have time to think.
I appreciate the ideas. Thanks,
Bob

[T77911S]

if it worked before then likely you did something wrong or battery since you say it is old.
I really doubt the solenoid went bad during a rebuild

[Walt Fricke]

T - I think like this often as well, but I have seen the power of coincidence make diagnosis baffling.

[T77911S]

me too, but I still blame myself and try to rule out everything I could do wrong before spending $$.

plus its a coil, pretty hard to break that unless you actually take it apart, and even then its hard to break.

i think something is binding or not connected correctly.

[bobswei]

Here's my update now I had a few minutes to take another look: I connected jumper cables to my commute car and started the engine. I connected the other end to ground on starter and then touched each connection point. The arrows in the photo tell the story. This car will sit for long periods of time were the battery can barely crank the engine but it will "always" crank no matter how slowly. When I touch the main connector for the power, (with the jumper cables) I don't even get a tiny spark.
I may pull a starter out of my race car and try it. (when I get time).
Thanks...

[Joe Bob]

If you hooked it up right and it clicks. Give the solenoid a whack....it in most cases frees up a sticky solenoid.

[T77911S]

1 as per my post, the contacts inside the solenoid can get burned so much they don't make a good connection in there for enough current to go thru to run the motor.

2 its that or the solenoid is not pulling in all the way.

3 not enough current/power to pull the solenoid in. usually wiring, connections, ign sw

4 not enough current to run the motor. bad battery, bad connections.

5 engine locked up

as far as I know, these are the only things that will keep a starter from working.

I have never checked resistance with the solenoid pulled in but I suppose you could check it. not sure what it will prove as far as whats wrong.


you could go thru my solenoid rebuild.
clean the contacts, spin the contacts because about only half is used. also a little grease on the plunger wont hurt.

or replace the solenoid.
if its an original starter I would try to get it working.

[bobswei]

I did follow your post on rebuilding/cleaning and went through all the steps. Cleaned with sand paper and soldiered the connections back. I started researching a correct replacement solenoid but I think I will take this one apart, one more time and check continuity.
Thanks for the input.
Bob

[T77911S]

with the solenoid off the starter, apply power to pull it in and then measure the resistance between the big terminals. just curious.
then after the rebuild do the same with it on the starter if it does not work.

[jlex]

Check the ground strap on your car. Had to change mine when my starter was acting finicky... starter is now perfect after a new ground strap.

[bobswei]

Todays update: I took apart the solenoid again. I check continuity before I did. Touching the two connectors with the plunger all the way in shows 40.5 (jumping around a bit). I expected 0.00. I tested the front and back (threaded and contact area) of the two connectors and it was 0.00. Both sides of the plunger contact area was 0.00. Here's my idea. If I put a washer on the bottom, insides of the terminals, it would bring the contact surfaces a bit closer together. As in the photo for the one post. T77911S got me thinking, the plunger isn't coming in far enough to make contact, from his check list. Any thoughts on my "back woods" fix?

Oh, jlex. Before i removed the started, I thought of that but not the issue.
Thanks all.....
Bob update, maybe tomorrow...

[bobswei]

Forgot:
"with the solenoid off the starter, apply power to pull it in and then measure the resistance between the big terminals. just curious."
Wasn't sure how to do this. I know continuity and volts. For everything else, I use duct tape.

[bobswei]

Last update: Since it always takes me 24 hours for T77911S input to register in my head, I now have a working starter. It may have (probably was) working after the first solenoid rebuild but I wasn't doing something right to test it. But some light bulbs went off in my head about what was actually happening inside this thing. Another cleaning, sanding and soldiering and a test shows it working 100%.
Thanks for all the ideas and suggestions. Saved me from buying a new one.
Bob

[T77911S]

great.
on the bottom of those 2 lugs, how did they look? burned?
same with the plunger side. burned?

don't know if the washers will have any effect on how far the solenoid pulls the starter gear into the flywheel,
I have a spare starter, just don't have time to do tests on it.