I am still undecided. I like the MA Shaw reputation. It also sounds like the BW Motorsports is a good selection. I probably would not take advantage of the 'nerf' bars, since my Euro model does not have bumper shocks. I would like to see some pictures of the bars, so I can determine if they really do provide crash protection above 1 mph. It takes a lot of strength to withstand the momentum of a car(not implying the BW nerf bars aren't up to the task).

If price were my sole motivator, then the Rennspeed pieces would be on my car. I guess it comes down to whose product I trust the most.

Ok, who's next...? I'm finished with the mic.

Jurgen

I bought Shaw from reputation and feed back of the guys installing them in our area. I also liked what Mike had to say when I called. Mine have been shipped. I'll try to detail the process from unpacking to the paint and detail work over the next few weeks.

Money wasn't a real object on the choice......compared to what they cost to paint and install, 500 to 600 bucks either way isn't gonna mean a lot in the end I suspect.

We own Porsches for crimney sake! Hard to justify the Rup parts when there are other extremely high quality sets available. But some where between $1000 and $3000 for parts should cover a decent set of bumpers :) I am really curious as to what everyone pays for the install and paint....again done at a "excellence is expected" level.

turbo6bar,
the eurocars are a better choice than the US for the nerf bars because they use the non-hydraulic shocks to mount to the chassis. The front and rears shocks swap positions and one of them(can not remember which is shortened a bit w/ a torch). Unfortunately I can't provide pics becaus it was done so long ago. The BW Nerf bars are just properly shaped iron that bolts to the oem shock pads. They just sit behind the bumper caps.

The nerf bars just provide a bit more crush zone. They do not replace the function of the oem bumpers. The front nerf bar is a great place to hang an oil cooler from.

They can easily be fabbed from aluminum for more weight savings. The bumper strut/shock is a simple assembly
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads/bumpershock1.jpg

The BW pieces are very nice, light, finished nicely and look factory installed. They are also tough.

thanks for the post Bill, looked at your pictures, they do look stock, such a nice fit to them...right now I'm leaning towards the BWM's but will also consider the MA SHAW ones for group buy...

rdane, at this point price is not really important. However, as I said before, if price was king, Rennspeed parts would be the ones to purchase. I'm leaning towards the MA Shaw & BW Motorsports pieces. As far as installation costs, I'm doing all the work and painting, so it won't be an expensive project. I really love the SC, so I'm not cutting any corners.

Contrary to popular belief, I don't feel ownership requires lots of money to enjoy the Porsche experience. However, an open wallet sure helps. :)

I'll probably fabricate my own bumper bars from square mild steel tubing. It's easy to work, and the square shape allows fasteners to be installed easily. Aluminum angle would be a trick light alternative....

Souk, you've been diplomatic so far. How about an opinion? :)

Jurgen

I'm leaning towards the BW pieces since I know my Ruf rubber lip will attach since that is what Bill Verburg has installed.


Todd

is the yellow car sc flared or ruf flared?

tholyoak, remember that the lip is NLA from Ruf. It would be easy to fabricate once suitable rubber in found.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...ler1_small.jpg

<img src="http://www.pelicanparts.com/MotorCity/wmv/DetailB&Bfrtoilcooler.jpg"

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...iler3Small.jpg

Here you can see the bumper/nerf bar mount and the end of the nerf bar itself, it's just angle iron
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads/BB_o2Small.JPG

This is where large wheel and tire packages will have the most interference
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...fsidesmall.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa....75_garage.JPG

Bill

I already own the rubber lip from Ruf, so obtaining one is not a problem. It is a simple piece that would indeed be easy to replicate

Todd

The bumper caps are only going to be as good as the molds. It would be nice to know who used a real RUF cap and used one of there competeters. I personaly think being that none of the companies have them in stock and are going to have to make them they will be extra careful. A bad bumper in this group buy could be diasterous to their reputation. With that said I could always save an extra buck, I am leaning towards Rennspeed.

The unique thing about the RUF rubber lip is it's material. The best way to describe it would be that it's like a tire w/o tread.
It actually is multible ply's of rubber and chord. It is very stiff and durable.

I was able to round up one more lip for our fearless leader but he has decided to come up with his own sooo... Original RUF lip for YB $200.00. www.piedogger@aol.com

It looks like the RUF lip spoiler must/should be used in concert with a tail. I don't plan to run a tail. Doesn't sound like a mismatch with the RUF bumpers, eh? I would love to grab a 964 tail, but the previous owner just spent $$$ getting the A/C redone, along with a new decklid mounted condenser and custom lines. I'd hate to dump all the labor and parts just to go with the 964 decklid. Maybe later.

Also, in case anyone was wondering about the license plate lights on Bill's car, they're from a junkyard Japanese vehicle (honda/toyota). I like it a LOT.

Jurgen

The lip can easily be fabbed from flat conveyer belt type material. If you do this then you can make the lip as deep as you like, keeping in mind that the deeper it is the stiffer it will need to be. The difficulty will be in forming the radiused ends neatly.

The l/p lights came for a Japanese econobox Nissan/Toyota? in a junk yard. I painted them to match the rest of the trim. An other more expensive alternative is BMW 2002 l/p lights. I personally don't like them beacause of their exposed bolts.

Bill, great pictures, thanks! That sure will help when I am talking to Mark while he is doing the install.

"Contrary to popular belief, I don't feel ownership requires lots of money to enjoy the Porsche experience. However, an open wallet sure helps."

No question Jurgen, if money were no object we would all be driving the real Ruf cars :) Now that would be a group looking for world domination :lol:

I work with my hands everyday and advise people on how to spend several $s at a pop of my labor. I learned slowly to take advice from the pros to heart and buy what they recommend in quality and parts. It always saves money and time in the long run. That is a good thing on both ends, buyer and seller.

For all I know all the parts mentioned are of equal quality. I was told yesterday that most use molds till they bubble badly while others, Shaw for example, replace the mold every few pieces. I am trying to learn from every post. Bill's photos have really helped as have the conversations with the manufactures and the comments and other pictures here.

Man, I have tohelp a friend move today so I can't spend time ont his subject, but I promise to later this weekend and send out more info.

Pie, I'm one of those 911 owners with a tight parts budget so I can't afford the bumpers and the Ruf lip this month, but if you can hold on to the part for another month to 2 month, I promise to buy it from you (now that it's public, I'm commited).

Bill V, thank you so much for the posting!

More later. Thanks for the input guys.

Souk,
I did not mean to imply anything, When I sold the last one I was told no more no matter what! RUF does not want people with aftermarket bumpers getting them. So I advertisied it that way
(last one) you e-mailed me at almost the exact time the person that bought it did and as I said "I would see what I could" My friend was able to pull a favor and get it. I just don't want to be telling people it's the last one and then after they buy it advertise another one as last one. If you want it I will save it if not no problem just let me know.

RUF has these, the only reason they are NLA is because they don't want them to be used aftermarket. You have to remember they spent all the money on design and development, building molds from scratch ect... These after market people just have to buy one and use it to make a mold. I would be willing to bet other than the first one (who ever that was?) everyone else has used an aftermarket one as there mold. The farther from the original you are the more fit problems COULD happen.

I am not doubting MA SHAW as I am not a fiberglass expert but when ever I make a mold it takes a few weeks, every thing must dry longer so it is extra hard. You also have to put multible layers of wax in it which has to dry between coats so the plug will not stick to the mold. So unless there is a secret in the industry on making fast molds, a new mold every three pieces it could take quite awhile

From this guys webpage he mentions his car being converted to a CTR from his SC tub so this car has the SC flares, and the car has also maintained the raingutters .. most other CTR YB's have them shaved.. this is pretty much what a well done CTR SC converstion will look like if done right.

I'll see if I can track down his site address again for ya to go check out.

Later!
Eric

OK Guys,

You should have an e-mail or a PM regarding the Group Buy.
Please reply in e-mail, what ever you decide.

Pie, you have a PM to clear up any misunderstanding.
http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/...s/beerchug.gif

Thanks all. AND, there is room for more in the group buy! I think there is more than 20 now!:eek:

More related threads (thanks Paul):

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=77113&highlight=SC+on+a +diet

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=78054&highlight=SC+on+a +diet

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=78674&highlight=SC+on+a +diet

Guys that will be doing their own mounting and prep, read Pauls' threads on how to mount and paint! (Note: I stand by my vote on the group buy)

Souk, one clarification on your private email I wanted to mention to the others. I don't feel the primed fiberglass is a huge advantage. When I used to do some painting, I was advised to stick with one brand of product. If you start with PPG, you stick with PPG product from etch primer to clearcoat. Unless the seller knows what paint system each person will use, the primer applied might not be ideal. I could be wrong.

However, I do like the fact the company is willing to go the extra two steps.

Jurgen

I agree on the paint system comment Jurgen. The fact that they will prep it is still attractive, as is the other freebees. Judging from comments on Paul's threads, I think getting the vendor to prep it, but not prime it may be a good way to go. If the glass and resin need to fully cure, putting primer on it may not be smart. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable will chime in.

Also, if the part should be full cured before paint, I would fit and mount the parts on my car, then let it cure insitu. That may prevent some of the warping and fitting issues others have reported.

CTR
 

Hey gang,
I had a few more questions which I needed answering, so I gave a call myself to the folks that Souk is voting for. Anyway, with regard to the priming/painting issue, I was told they use a 2 component acrylic urethane primer with flex additive which is good stuff and no paint folks should have a problem painting over it. Most importantly, he told me that he would have no problem using different primers for different people if that is what they wanted, ie. if you want to use PPG paint he will use a PPG primer. Additionaly, in terms of the curing issue, he said if you use a good resin you should have less problems associated with the curing issue. He did say that we should mount the parts and then put a heat lamp on it for a day or so, or set it out in some warm sunshine to help with that issue.
In case you haven't guessed, I think my mind is made up. This supplier said he would go out of his way to make sure this group was taken care of and the parts were of excellent finish and quality. I asked about a few other issues, so if you have more questions, post them, somebody may know the answer without bombarding the vendor with phone calls and questions like I did.
Brian

Ummm, no questions left from me. I know who I'm going to choose. :)

Jurgen

As far as a prepped bumper goes, pretty much any body shop that is worth a damn is going to insist on stripping the bumper. They just don't know the quality and products used. So unless you are doing your own that pretty much is a non issue.


As far as the bumpers behind the bumper caps are concerned, They look like they are just in the center of the car. It seems to me they would do little if any, to protect in a crash. It also seems that if you do get in a little fender bender what might have just cracked your fiberglass i.e. bump... is now going to bend your car.

If crash safety is your main concern I would'nt be looking at these,
RUF designed them to take of 150#'s or so off your car to help you go 211mph. I have heard the Getty rumor from a few different people, I don't think that is a bad thing they are considered one of the best. I am still leaning towards Reenspeed
if it matters.

Agree with you there, piedogger. The nerf bars are like sugar pills. I really doubt they will do anything in a crash. Maybe if you ran into the bumper with a bicycle it would help.

Jurgen

Ya, I personaly think the bumpers would cause more damage.
That's pretty cool about using any product for prep but you will find If the shop is going to waranty it they will want to do it. A paint job is only as good as the prep work. If they have any problem they will blame that prep work even if it is better than they would do. Just my .02

Brian, good work.

So what are the other guys thinking????

I agree that nerf bar wont give much protection. In any low impact collision, I hope the f-glass will crack and deform without bending my fenders and quarters! Argh!

In a slightly higher impact event the bars will help, but it wont give you the protection of the stock bumpers. I would like a small peace of mind since I will be driving my car daily. Any additional impact pretection may be a good thing in my situation.

Parts curing seems to be common with all the parts. Not a big issue.

I would definitely mount them before I paint. They'll be mounted and the car will sit in the garage with the propane heater on now and then. It'll be so toasty in there that I'll want to stare at the car all night :)

:eek: :eek: stop HERE :eek:

(evil souk) Yeow baby! I want them saucers.

(good souk) No way man, that's like putting clown feet on a toddler. My car will flip over....or my lovely lady will flip me off if I get those (can't wait to see the final price). :)

Saucers!

With Grabbers! Eric, these are calling your name.

I may have a source for some rubber for the front lip. There is a rubber supply place in town that just gave me some strips one time. They use it for these huge conveyor belts on coal mines. It is really tuff, but I am not sure it will shine as nicely as Bills Ruf piece does. It would most likely have to be cut with a band saw or something, certainly much tougher than the factory piece on my car. I would be willing to see what they have and report back. It is made like a tire more or less w/o treads.

John, That would be great, thanks in advance.

HOLY CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't need those .. hell my car is light enough and , **** man! those will rip ya out of yer seat belts.. seta, harness and all.. will pull right thru the tub !
HAHHAHAHHA I lov'em!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Eric

I think it is time to buy guys, DE season is approaching and I am ready to do this if I am at all. souk, let's rock!

I'm still waiting for people to reply. so far I think 5 or 6 have e-mailed me. I have another tidbit to add to the page...got to do the family thing right now, but I'll post it later tonight.

So this is a call for votes, please :(

One of the vendors sent me a picture of their nerf bar (Thanks). If you can't figure out who it is, e-mail me. I'm swamped right now (consulting sucks sometimes because you can't always control your schedule), but I will try to update the webpage. This was quick and easy.'



PLEASE SEND IN YOUR VOTES. (I'm starting to feel like an armless man standing on a rock 100 yards out and the tide is rising :( :) )



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...ed bar BBS.JPG

Still waiting for reply guys. Did my new Avatar scare some of you away? :)

Here is what I got in today. Performance Products Nurf Bars and a set of CTR bumpers from Shaw. My body shop guy likes the bumpers and mentioned that the nurf bars will also make a good heat sink on the rear for the muffler heat and easier on the fiberglass.
Bars fit up perfectly. They look a little bigger than the others posted above, and a little heavier I suspect. All the parts looked pretty good from my point of view. Can't wait to see all the cars finished up.

http://www.standingwave.org/albums/r.../afl.sized.jpg

http://www.standingwave.org/albums/r.../afn.sized.jpg

Sweet! Are the BB bars made of sheet metal? Or channel iron? Any pictures of the backsides of the bumpers?