Starter problem

[porschenut]

I've got an issue with the starter or solenoid in my Carrera. The car was last driven a month ago, and everything was fine.

When I turn the key to the start position, I can hear the fuel pump come on and the solenoid clicks very audibly, but there is no action at all from the starter. I've checked voltage at the starter switch connection (terminal 50) and am getting 10 volts (Bentley manual says 7.5 volts is fine) so I know the ignition switch is fine. I can't seem to get a multimeter connection on the terminal (30) that connects to the starter itself, so I'm unable to determine if the solenoid is the problem.

Is it possible that the starter and solenoid are okay, but the starter is jammed against the ring gear somehow? If so, is there an easy way to unjam it? My dominant shoulder is recovering from an injury right now so I can't do any heavy wrenching.

If I can't get the car fired up, I'm going to have to have it flatbedded to a shop to have a pro look at it. Any ideas?

BTW, on the G50 cars you have to lower the transmission about 6 inches to get at the mounting bolts for the starter, so it's a PITA compared to swapping out the starter on earlier cars. In case you were wondering.

[pete3799]

Measure your battery voltage.

[porschenut]

Yeah, i forgot to mention:

Battery measures 12.6 volts. I also cleaned the ground connection between the body and transmission.

[darrin]

stupid question -- have you tried a jumpstart? Batteries can show proper resting voltage but still have no real underlying capacity, seems odd that the starter would go out after sitting for a month, but less odd that a battery could give up the ghost after the same time period -- just trying to rule out easy before going to difficult . . .

[porschenut]

Not a stupid idea at all, Darrin. I too like to go from easy to hard. Unfortunately my 911 is currently sharing the garage with a non-running car and my "good" car is in the driveway. I doubt my jumper cables are long enough.

I think what I'll try first thing tomorrow morning is to pop-start it using the clutch while rolling down the street. If it works, at least it will save me the cost of a tow. If not, I'll have the rest of the day to get the poor thing on a flatbed.

[shrtshck]

Try hitting the starter with a hammer.
I had mine rebuilt last year, they replaced the solenoid and cleaned everything for $120, looked like new.
You are correct, G50 cars cars need to drop transmission about 6 inches

[cpa]

If you are having a problem with your shoulder don't take any chances. Call a flatbed and winch it out of the garage. Cheaper than surgery.

[T77911S]

clean both battery terminals and clean the ground connection in the trunk.

I have used a test light on the starter. it should be about as bright as it would be if you connect it to the battery cable on the starter and ground it.

its probably the solenoid.
I did a thread on rebuilding the starter and solenoid, if you can solder.
you could also try just replacing the solenoid if you can get it.

the terminal lugs in the solenoid get burned and can no longer transfer the current to the motor needed to run it.
much like a contactor on your home AC unit, contacts get burned and create hi resistance.

[Len 911]

Mine did the same thing a couple months back, Starter locked up, no warnings at all, went to start it on day and nothing but a click.. pulled the starter and it would turn with a lot of force. order a High torque from our host . Much lighter and smaller then the original and easer to install. I did have to index the mounting plate one bolt hole. very easy to do . it's adjustable

Good luck

[OldSpool87]

Run your headlights a minute or two to take the surface charge off the battery. Re-test voltage. Good news is that that starter is seeing 12v.

[Sboxin]

IMHO - -
.
.
Take the battery to a store and have it load tested . . . simple, easy . . .

Regards,

[porschenut]

Nope, it's not the battery. I swapped it into my good car last night and it started it right up. It's a 1 year old Interstate. I just measured it at 13 volts at the terminals. Good and strong. The terminals, cable and ground connection are clean as a whistle. I made them that way last spring when I was preparing for concours competition.

I can't bang the starter with a hammer because there's not enough access to swing anything. The G50 is not like the 915 carreras where access is easy. A gentle tap is all I could manage and that did nothing.

I have a sloped driveway and a sloped, straight street. I'm going to bump start it in reverse going down the driveway, or, failing that, start it in forward gear while coasting down the street. If it starts, I'll drive it around for a bit and park it back in the garage and give the starter another chance. Whether it starts successfully or not, it's going to a shop for starter replacement either under its own power or piggyback on a flatbed. I'm not physically capable of doing anything strenuous right now.

I appreciate all the suggestions!

[jlex]

If you were able to at least tap on the starter, was it when someone was holding the key in the start position? Sometimes people don't realize that a load must be on the starter at the same time while trying to free it up by tapping it. Hitting it with no power to the starter will do nothing.

[porschenut]

Originally Posted by jlex

Sometimes people don't realize that a load must be on the starter at the same time while trying to free it up by tapping it. Hitting it with no power to the starter will do nothing.

Count me in that group of people! No one was turning the key while I tapped. Thanks for enlightening me.

Could I simulate the 'start' key position by applying 12 volts to terminal 50 at the solenoid? Terminal 50 is the wire coming from the ignition switch. That's the one that measured 10 volts when I turned the key. Unfortunately I don't have a human helper.

[Joe Bob]

A whack on the solenoid won't hurt and will likely free it up. It usually is a hot start symptom after a long drive when you get stranded/embarassed at the gas pump. But cold start/long rest is not rare.

My experience is with SR17 and related starters. A typical "band aid" fix is installing a starter relay. I don't like them but they work and an easy install. PP sells them, they are originally a Ford part hence my distaste. Anyways, I have had one on my SC for years and when stuff works I leave it alone.

I have used the whack a solenoid on it twice in 18+ years of ownership. Good luck.

edit: as to tapping w/o two people and concurring turn of the ignition requirement? Nah, I've done plenty of solo whacks....never needed help.

[T77911S]

yes,
when I was a kid I had a 64 VW, not uncommon to slide under there with a screwdriver and lay it across the 2 terminals to start it. lots of sparks.

I made up a push button switch with alligator clips that I could clip on a starter for easier testing.

if it works all it usually proves is that the starter works and the problem is hi resistance in the wiring or ign switch.

[jlex]

Yes, a screwdriver with an insulated handle placed across both terminals should give it a jolt. Car in neutral, of course. A remote starter switch is, of course, a better idea to eliminate sparks & operate more safely.

[porschenut]

Success! But bewilderment. Banging on the starter while applying 12 volts to the solenoid didn't work. But then I decided to try something that, to my silly little brain, had very little chance of success. I swapped in a battery from one of my other cars. It was a little one with much lower amp capacity than the Interstate in the Porsche...and the old girl fired right up. So I thought "I should have listened to those guys who said to focus on the battery first." I then swapped the Interstate back in, and it fired right up again just like the first time. Huh?! I'm scratching my head.

[T77911S]

bad connection at the battery.

first thing I told you.

[david.avrahami@]

I had a similar problem happen to my 87 carrera during a vacation trip to Vermont.
I ended starting the car on a slope for the duration...
My mechanic diagnosed the problem to be the yellow ignition wire from the ignition switch to the LHS engine compartment plug. There was a short somewhere in between...
Rather then buying and installing a new wire set, He just disconnected both sides of the yellow ignition wire and welded a new one in parallel. problem solved!