Carrera 3.2 no flow to front cooler

[Joe Bob]

Good, always wise to check, never assume the level of P-car experience on a question. I once asked a stupid question on brake bleeding and found that it was a good one. The calipers were installed upside down....hence trapped air....gravity ya know?

Sorry, I posted prior to my coffee, brainstorming here. what has changed besides the t-stat? Have you queried the wrench on his opinion?

[rbarton]

You definitely can't underestimate my experience Joe Bob! All I've learned is what I've picked up from my many mistakes and from what I've read on these forums. I really appreciate the help.

I haven't run this by my mechanic yet. Trying to avoid that look my wife gives me when I tell her I spent money on one of 'my stupid cars' again...

Note that I installed the engine after the top end work, not my mechanic. I carried the engine in to him after discovering busted head studs. I do have a vague recollection of thinking the car was running hot the last time I drove it BEFORE the engine work though. A long time ago. So this current problem is very possibly unrelated.

[Joe Bob]

Good luck, always have to make the boss happy. BTW, these can be yours!!!

Black 3.2 Carrera triple bar graphics.

[911obgyn]

Have you checked the thermostat in the engine? Use the IR thermometer on the oil cooler on motor.

[911 Rod]

How are you getting it up to temperature? I have to run my 86 pretty hard before my thermostat opens up to the front cooler.

The reason I ask is if the car is getting very hot quickly I think your problem is elsewhere and little oil pressure is even making it to your thermostat.

Did you pressure check your engine oil cooler?

[rbarton]

Hmmm. I am letting the car idle for 10 or so minutes and that is getting it to 215F. So that's not normal? I shouldn't be seeing that kind of temp unless the car has been run hard or in high heat?

FYI, my oil pressure gauge does read normal - 1 bar or so per 1000 rpm, higher when cold.

So is it possible that one of the lines aft of the thermostat is partially blocked? I did see pretty solid flow up front out of the hard supply line when I ran the engine with the front cooler out. But maybe the return line from the thermostat housing to the oil tank isn't flowing? I never had that one disconnected, but who knows..I guess it would make sense since everything forward of that has checked out more or less OK.

No, I never tested the thermostat on the engine-mounted oil cooler prior to re-installing the engine.

[3rd_gear_Ted]

If portable ultrasonic flow gauges weren't so expensive, I would own one.

Maybe were you live some outfit rents test equipment like that on a daily basis.

IMHO the first step in diagnosis is firmly establishing if the issue is pressure or flow?

Does your oil tank gauge work?

When engine is cold my oil tank gauge indicates some sort of oil tank level along with the oil pressure and engine temp, when the thermostat opens I notice the oil FLOW turbulence pegs the oil level gauge to full and the engine temp goes down slightly. Go out on track and drive it HARD and then maybe 215 at the most.

[911 Rod]

Originally Posted by rbarton

Hmmm. I am letting the car idle for 10 or so minutes and that is getting it to 215F. So that's not normal? I shouldn't be seeing that kind of temp unless the car has been run hard or in high heat?

FYI, my oil pressure gauge does read normal - 1 bar or so per 1000 rpm, higher when cold.

So is it possible that one of the lines aft of the thermostat is partially blocked? I did see pretty solid flow up front out of the hard supply line when I ran the engine with the front cooler out. But maybe the return line from the thermostat housing to the oil tank isn't flowing? I never had that one disconnected, but who knows..I guess it would make sense since everything forward of that has checked out more or less OK.

No, I never tested the thermostat on the engine-mounted oil cooler prior to re-installing the engine.

My car will not even get to operating temperature at idle.

Did you double check all of the oil lines you removed? The routing is very important.

[rbarton]

Originally Posted by 911 Rod

My car will not even get to operating temperature at idle.

Did you double check all of the oil lines you removed? The routing is very important.

All I undid for the engine work were the S hose and the hard line nearby - the ones that must be undone for an engine drop. I don't see how anything can be hooked up incorrectly.

[rkeele]

Man I feel your pain, I have the same problem going thru with the tests now

[rbarton]

Originally Posted by rkeele

Man I feel your pain, I have the same problem going thru with the tests now

Keep me posted on what you try and find. I'm trying to put a plan of attack together for this weekend when I hope to have some time to work on it.

Can anyone suggest a procedure to verify that my engine-mounted thermostat is working using my IR gun?

Thanks again.

[ClickClickBoom]

Originally Posted by rbarton

Keep me posted on what you try and find. I'm trying to put a plan of attack together for this weekend when I hope to have some time to work on it.

Can anyone suggest a procedure to verify that my engine-mounted thermostat is working using my IR gun?

Thanks again.

Pull it and do the boiling water test. The engine temp is measured from the crankcase, check your oil tank temp, if the oil tank isn't close to engine temp, the internal thermostat is not opening.

[Eagledriver]

I would try the idea of bypassing the cooler with an oil line. Once the thermostat opens the lines should get hot. I'm starting to suspect you have a measurement problem. Engine is just not getting hot enough to open the thermostat. Try driving it hard and get it really hot before checking the cooler again. 10 minutes idle would not be enough even on the hotest of days.

-Andy

[fred cook]

When I removed the oil cooler lines/thermostat from my SC, I could not get the fittings loose at the thermostat so I undid them at the other ends and removed the lines and thermostat as a unit. Once out, I was able to hold the thermostat with a huge pipe wrench and use a large wrench to break loose the nuts at the t-stat. Doing it this way allowed me to remove the lines from the thermostat without damaging the threads. Just be sure to take a picture or two when the unit is out so that you can get everything back together correctly when reassembling the unit. Once it is all apart, you can check each line for clogs and test the entire thermostat for proper operation. Good luck!

[BoxsterGT]

To get full flow through the hardlines & thermostat do you have someone local that will loan you a "Trombone" type front loop cooler? If not, I would be happy to loan you a test piece like this on the left if you pay the postage.



With the fittings crimped of course.

Len at Autosportengineering dot com

[rbarton]

Originally Posted by BoxsterGT

To get full flow through the hardlines & thermostat do you have someone local that will loan you a "Trombone" type front loop cooler? If not, I would be happy to loan you a test piece like this on the left if you pay the postage.



With the fittings crimped of course.

Len at Autosportengineering dot com

Very generous offer Len. I just had a hydraulic shop make me up a test hose to use in place of my cooler though.

By the way, the fuel lines you made up for me worked out great. Thanks again.

[virob]

Let me get this straight. Starting with a stone cold car, you can idle for 10 min and get an in car temp gauge reading of 212 F, and infrared temp readings off the tank and sump of 200 F?

I'm no expert, but seems to me your engine is developing a tremendous about of heat very quickly. Are you sure there isn't a problem with that top end rebuild?

[rkeele]

I could not get enough heat in my motor on idle to open the thermostat, I don't think 10 min. on idle will do it. 10 min. driving on track sure did it mine hit 250+ when I got of another thing I thought of was an air pocket between the cooler and thermostat since I installed everything dry, however I thought the breather would not let that happen?don't know if that's possible I have also heard of installing the engine thermostat 180 deg. wrong, you have a 3.2 and it has one, my problem is with a 3.6 that I believe doesn't have one because there is no engine mounted cooler.

[rbarton]

Yes, the car gets to over 200F within a few minutes just idling in the garage. 10 minutes may be a slight exaggeration; I'll time it next time.

It seems to me after reading your responses that I have two problems: my car is getting too hot too fast, and when it does get hot I am not getting flow through my front cooler.

These problems may have a common cause, but they may not. I may have a partially plugged front cooler AND my engine-mounted thermostat may not be opening when it should, for example. Or I may not have good flow to my oil tank from the thermostat housing. That would back up the scavenge from the crankcase AND prevent flow through my front cooler, correct?

[virob]

This may be dumb, but is it possible that the engine is heating up so fast that there isn't time for the thermostat to the front cooler to open before you shut the engine off?