Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > Porsche 911 Technical Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Hudson, WI
Posts: 122
Garage
Control Arm install question

Car is 1989 Carrera 3.2. I removed my control arms and installed ER rubber control arm bushings, and purchased new Sway-A-Way torsion bars. Also installed new ER sway bar bushings. Left ball joints in control arms, as I just installed them two summers ago. Sway bar is fully installed on car.

The control arms came out during uninstall relatively easily. I did sense a bit of "couch up the corner stairwell" when taking them out, and so want to ask about re-install. Is it as simple as a little soap on sway bar, and just start working control arm in place, or am I going to be fighting the sway bar somehow? My concern is i get control arm relatively in place, but ball joint is nowhere near strut bottom. As with most of my 911 projects, I just haven't ever done anything like this before.

Thx,

Mark
__________________
1989 911 Carrera 3.2
2009 Audi A4 2.0TQA
2006 Subaru Forester
1971 BMW R60/5
Old 04-08-2017, 08:24 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
Turbo Powered Snow Blower
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Rocklin, CA .... Galveston, TX
Posts: 2,936
Garage
I'm getting close to the same project. Mine is all apart waiting on camber plate bushings.
My thought was to install the sway bar to both control arms, attach them to the rear support and lift the assembly into place as one unit.

I am curious about the answers you get.
__________________
Derrick
Old 04-08-2017, 08:38 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Hudson, WI
Posts: 122
Garage
Bentley says control arms can be removed/installed with sway bar in place (for whatever that's worth). When I installed my turbo tie rods, I remember getting the skid plate back on was a HUGE pain because nothing lined up without help from Hercules. Was trying to avoid a repeat of that by having sway bar and pan all installed first.
__________________
1989 911 Carrera 3.2
2009 Audi A4 2.0TQA
2006 Subaru Forester
1971 BMW R60/5
Old 04-08-2017, 08:55 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Hudson, WI
Posts: 122
Garage
I didnt get very far with plan A. Ended up removing cross member and assembling suspension on garage floor. Could use some feedback from people that have installed suspension as an assembly before. Is there an order of operation that makes install easiest? Currently i have crossmember loosely bolted to steering rack, with conrol arm fronts raised up. Working to get the long bolts roughed in that go thru ends of cross member and control arms. If there is a better way, would appreciate any advice.

Thx
__________________
1989 911 Carrera 3.2
2009 Audi A4 2.0TQA
2006 Subaru Forester
1971 BMW R60/5
Old 04-08-2017, 07:15 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
Registered User
 
donagain1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Rocklin, CA
Posts: 415
Garage
Gosh, I hate it when it happens this way... I find a post that fits exactly what I want to do in a few days, settle in, sip some coffee and get ready to read the great insights from the community here, then BAM!!!... the post ends. No resolution given to the issue. Oh well, I'll just have to continue the search.
__________________
Don
Rocklin, CA
-85 Carrera
Old 01-10-2019, 07:08 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
Get off my lawn!
 
GH85Carrera's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 50,960
Garage
There does seem to be some "magic" trick to it. I replaced the rubber and torsion bars and shocks and ball joints and tie rods. The instructions from Elephant on positioning the a-arms after the bushing install made it easy. Just follow those instructions.

My biggest chore was to get the anti-sway bar back on. I replaced the rubber bushings on the anti-way bar as well, and that meant drop it off. If came off easily ,and did not require it to pop out or twist at all. I figured I would just put it right back into position. Nope. I had to have a strong buddy to help position it while I go the bolts started.

The skid plate is really easy, once you realize the holes for the mount will easily rotate in position and align easily. I should have taken photos. Anyway just try to rotate the hole the bolt goes through and you will see it make it simple.
__________________
Glen
42 Year member of the Porsche Club of America
1985 911 Carrera; 2017 Macan
1986 El Camino with Fuel Injected 350 Crate Engine
My Motto: I will never be too old to have a happy childhood!
Old 01-11-2019, 07:57 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
 
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 855
Garage
One time I was able to put my (stock) front sway bar back in with the a-arms installed. I jacked each arm to the horizontal to create the widest distance between the two arms' sway bar mounts (think of the circumference of a circle or clock...3 and 9 are farther apart than, say 4 and 8 o'clock), installed one end then somehow muscled the other in. I may have used a strong ratchet strap to help slightly compress the ends of the sway bar. I think the fact I succeeded this way may have been something of a fluke.

I currently have my front apart for rebushing. This time I did what it sounds like Bentley is saying: I dropped the front suspension as a unit, which means separating the steering rack (two bolts), them disassembled the assembly on the floor. When it comes time to reassemble, the jigsaw sequence will likely be: insert one a-arm into cross member; then install sway bar end into that arm; then install other sway end into other a-arm; then install that a-arm into the cross member. That way, you minimize fighting with the sway bar. I hope that helps. John.
Old 01-11-2019, 08:25 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Seattle
Posts: 3,159
Had everything put together, went to install the sway bar and no dice. I removed the control arm on one side (again) inserted the sway bar in the bushing and bolted everything back up. Easy as can be... on the floor in the garage by yourself
__________________
1982 911 Targa, 3.0L ROW with Webers
Old 01-11-2019, 10:12 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
Posts: 636
Quote:
Originally Posted by GH85Carrera View Post
There does seem to be some "magic" trick to it. I replaced the rubber and torsion bars and shocks and ball joints and tie rods. The instructions from Elephant on positioning the a-arms after the bushing install made it easy. Just follow those instructions.

My biggest chore was to get the anti-sway bar back on. I replaced the rubber bushings on the anti-way bar as well, and that meant drop it off. If came off easily ,and did not require it to pop out or twist at all. I figured I would just put it right back into position. Nope. I had to have a strong buddy to help position it while I go the bolts started.

The skid plate is really easy, once you realize the holes for the mount will easily rotate in position and align easily. I should have taken photos. Anyway just try to rotate the hole the bolt goes through and you will see it make it simple.
I'm about to pull my front control arms for the first time to replace the bushings.. How critical is the indexing of the arms with the bushings etc? Do the bushings not rotate on the control arm at all after the soap has dried ?
Old 01-11-2019, 01:51 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: behind the redwood curtain, (humboldt county) california
Posts: 668
Garage
Indexing torsion bar mount - watch Elephant bushing install video.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikedsilva View Post
I'm about to pull my front control arms for the first time to replace the bushings.. How critical is the indexing of the arms with the bushings etc? Do the bushings not rotate on the control arm at all after the soap has dried ?
The rubber does not slide once the soap dries, so, indexing is very important. Elephant has a clear video of the install.

IIRC, the rack install is a bit fussy where the steering u joint receives the rack splined pinion shaft, so, installing the rack first,(asssuming you have it out), will allow you to focus on just this, rather than balancing the whole, completed assembly.

One additional thought, when starting the front end install, just start the attaching bolts, don't tighten each bolt as it is installed. This will allow you a bit of wiggle room to fit the unit.

Regards, chris
Old 01-11-2019, 04:24 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
Posts: 636
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrismorse View Post
The rubber does not slide once the soap dries, so, indexing is very important. Elephant has a clear video of the install.

IIRC, the rack install is a bit fussy where the steering u joint receives the rack splined pinion shaft, so, installing the rack first,(asssuming you have it out), will allow you to focus on just this, rather than balancing the whole, completed assembly.

One additional thought, when starting the front end install, just start the attaching bolts, don't tighten each bolt as it is installed. This will allow you a bit of wiggle room to fit the unit.

Regards, chris
HI Chris, thanks for the advice.

I have not pulled mine apart yet, but I do have a 'through the body sway bar" with drop links on the front... will my procedure be a little different to those that have the sway bar attached to the control arms?
Old 01-11-2019, 04:42 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: behind the redwood curtain, (humboldt county) california
Posts: 668
Garage
Through body bar set up easier

With the through body ARB, you don't have to wrestle with the underbody, late style bar. You can assemble the cross member and A arms, torsion bars and mounts, then fit the assembly, or you can reassemble the suspension piece by piece on the car.
I've got the undermount bar on my 74, so I'm going to fit the rack, put the cross member, T bars, A arms, mounting brackets, and ARB together on the bench, then fit the assembly, hang the assembled struts and work my way around tightening the bolts.
Be on the lookout for the dreaded "While You Are In There Bug", (who lurks about the smugglers box, somewhere), my sticky caliper/front end squeak morphed into a full front end upgrade, all new (PMB calipers) bearings, bushings SS brake lines, discs, air ducting to ft brakes, Bilsteins, quick steering rack upgrade, turbo tie rods, MC, aw he!!, pedal cluster overhaul, footwell rust repair, leather sport seat upgrade, duck tail and front air dam - DAMM, did I slip on the slope a bit? Rennline shifter, Stomsky coupler,KEP aluminum PP, 6 pound flywheel. IM fallllling. Tunnel fuel lines fuel tank. Hellp.

Best,
Chris

Last edited by chrismorse; 01-12-2019 at 08:24 AM.. Reason: Forgot to ask for help, therapist recommendations
Old 01-12-2019, 08:22 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
Registered User
 
donagain1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Rocklin, CA
Posts: 415
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikedsilva View Post
I'm about to pull my front control arms for the first time to replace the bushings.. How critical is the indexing of the arms with the bushings etc? Do the bushings not rotate on the control arm at all after the soap has dried ?
Re: indexing the mounting flanges on the control arms, it is important to have the arms go back on how the came off... something about the pre-load on the bushings. If you don't want to use a protractor, bevel gage, digital level, or make your own template, you can do what I did, and it worked very well. PRIOR to removing the brackets from the old rubber, take a hacksaw and saw a notch in both flanges at the same time, maybe a couple mm deep, then smear some putty, typewriter correction fluid, white paint, whatever you got into the notch and wipe off the adjoining surfaces. I leaves you with an indexing mark on each piece that's easy to line up when you press them back on with the new rubber. I put one notch on each of the right arm pieces and two on the lefts, so everything went back on the way it came off.

__________________
Don
Rocklin, CA
-85 Carrera
Old 01-12-2019, 09:51 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
Posts: 636
Quote:
Originally Posted by donagain1 View Post
Re: indexing the mounting flanges on the control arms, it is important to have the arms go back on how the came off... something about the pre-load on the bushings. If you don't want to use a protractor, bevel gage, digital level, or make your own template, you can do what I did, and it worked very well. PRIOR to removing the brackets from the old rubber, take a hacksaw and saw a notch in both flanges at the same time, maybe a couple mm deep, then smear some putty, typewriter correction fluid, white paint, whatever you got into the notch and wipe off the adjoining surfaces. I leaves you with an indexing mark on each piece that's easy to line up when you press them back on with the new rubber. I put one notch on each of the right arm pieces and two on the lefts, so everything went back on the way it came off.
Pretty clever.. I'm just not 100% sure mine are on properly aligned in the first place. My front end is very 'clunky'..... if it were a later model Jap car, my diagnosis for the noise would be worn struts.. ie, clunking, clicking noise.. usually top mounts worn etc..

With my 911, I have no idea as never taken one apart before. I can roll just the slightest amount, and the sound is like 2 spanners being slapped together.. interestingly, I don't seem to be able to feel much through the car and definitely not through the wheel.
Either way, I have some new Elephant rubber bushings for the control arms. I didn't pre order struts/shocks (what's the correct term?) since I think there are a few different types.

I will def be wary of the slippery slope and dig my heels in!
Old 01-12-2019, 10:34 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #14 (permalink)
Registered User
 
donagain1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Rocklin, CA
Posts: 415
Garage
I suppose there's an element of faith involved that the old ones were aligned correctly. Mine rode just fine since I bought it 1998, and it still rode well when the birds started chirping and it prompted me to change out the bushes. If you've got the Elephant kit, you can always check out angles of the old ones prior to disassembly and compare them to what it says on their instruction sheet. My tip was purely for ease on alignment when you've got both hands full while squooshing them onto the arm.
__________________
Don
Rocklin, CA
-85 Carrera
Old 01-12-2019, 12:31 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #15 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Hudson, WI
Posts: 122
Garage
Hi Don,

Sorry for not finishing out the thread. What I ended up doing was similar to what Ayles stated. I assembled everything on the floor, then lifted in place and loosely bolted everything up except left control arm at the front. It was just long ago that I don't remember EXACTLY the sequence of events. I think once everything else loosely installed, I was able to rotate/pry left control arm front in to position to get the bolts started. I don't think it was super challenging, as super challenging Porsche projects burn the experience in my brain. Regarding setting the angles on the brackets, I bought a digital level (Husky Brand) and it worked great. I don't think it was too expensive, and it seemed like something I may get use out of in the future anyway. Couple pics below. The one from underneath the car more or less shows what I did. Jack holding crossmember in middle, Duraflame box holding right control arm, stack of lumber holding left control arm. Hope this helps a bit.



__________________
1989 911 Carrera 3.2
2009 Audi A4 2.0TQA
2006 Subaru Forester
1971 BMW R60/5
Old 01-15-2019, 08:27 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #16 (permalink)
Registered User
 
donagain1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Rocklin, CA
Posts: 415
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dauner View Post
Hi Don,

Sorry for not finishing out the thread. What I ended up doing was similar to what Ayles stated. I assembled everything on the floor, then lifted in place and loosely bolted everything up except left control arm at the front. It was just long ago that I don't remember EXACTLY the sequence of events. I think once everything else loosely installed, I was able to rotate/pry left control arm front in to position to get the bolts started. I don't think it was super challenging, as super challenging Porsche projects burn the experience in my brain. Regarding setting the angles on the brackets, I bought a digital level (Husky Brand) and it worked great. I don't think it was too expensive, and it seemed like something I may get use out of in the future anyway. Couple pics below. The one from underneath the car more or less shows what I did. Jack holding crossmember in middle, Duraflame box holding right control arm, stack of lumber holding left control arm. Hope this helps a bit.



Dang, another post I wish I could have seen BEFORE I put mine back together!!!
In the photo I can't see whether your struts had been removed, or are a-hangin' by the shocks as mine were because I didn't want to mess with bleeding brakes afterward. With the ball joints pre-installed on the arms, I had a hell of a time lining up the upper pin to the hole in the strut, even doing one arm at a time. I can't imagine trying to slip two of them in by raising the entire assembly at once. It, I suppose, wouldn't have been an issue to slide a loose strut onto the ball joint after the arms were secure, but I reinstalled everything in the reverse order from how it all came apart.
__________________
Don
Rocklin, CA
-85 Carrera
Old 01-15-2019, 11:38 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #17 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Hudson, WI
Posts: 122
Garage
I didn't remove the struts. I'm sure I put one ball joint pin in at a time. I sort of remember wrangling the struts, slightly adjusting the pin so by the time they met up the pin and strut were colinear. I think I just use a jack to lift control arm up in to strut. I had replaced my ball joints a year or two earlier, and really didn't want to mess with removing and reinstalling again.

Glad it all worked out for you. My bushings were definitely shot (original from 1989). As it turns out, not the source of my loose suspension tho. I still have a wiggle wobble that I now have to assume is the rear suspension bushings as I now have all new components up front.
__________________
1989 911 Carrera 3.2
2009 Audi A4 2.0TQA
2006 Subaru Forester
1971 BMW R60/5
Old 01-15-2019, 07:33 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #18 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:58 AM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.