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-   -   Car out of storage, doesnt start (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/953402-car-out-storage-doesnt-start.html)

jcc911 04-23-2017 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff NJ (Post 9561627)
Have you checked to see if you have 12V at the WUR? If your WUR isn't warming up, that could cause exactly what you describe here at the engine warms up, but the fuel pressures don't change. Does it smell rich when it dies?

And agreed with the above that knowing your fuel pressures and your AFR's is imperative for CIS troubleshooting.

I haven't yet. How would I do that?

Jeff NJ 04-23-2017 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcc911 (Post 9561628)
I haven't yet. How would I do that?

The WUR has one electrical plug right on it. It needs to be 12V with the car running. That is what powers the bimetallic strip getting heated inside the WUR, which adjusts the fuel control pressure out of the WUR and increases it as it warms up. If it never increases fuel pressure, it will become way too rich.
I believe (in the 930 at least) that this is on the same circuit as the rear fuel pump. So that's why there is no voltage with the engine not running but the ignition in the "on" position, since the pumps don't run then either. So this could also be an indication that your rear pump isn't running...

jcc911 04-23-2017 12:37 PM

My car is an SC, so there is only one FP. I will put ign in ON and see if I can get 12V

Jeff NJ 04-23-2017 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcc911 (Post 9561649)
My car is an SC, so there is only one FP. I will put ign in ON and see if I can get 12V

I know, but I thought you had it turbo'd with 930 bits?

What are the details of your fueling and CIS system since standard SC fueling likely wouldn't cut it? Its tough to troubleshoot if we don't know what you have.

jcc911 04-23-2017 12:48 PM

Its 930 CIS, but I only have one fuel pump.

If I should have 12v in the on position, there does not seem to be 12v to the plug.

Jeff NJ 04-23-2017 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcc911 (Post 9561665)
Its 930 CIS, but I only have one fuel pump.

If I should have 12v in the on position, there does not seem to be 12v to the plug.

No, it has to be running to get 12v. the pumps and the entire cis electrical system do nothing unless the car is running.

A 930 has two pumps, so is your single (assuming 044) in the front or rear? The WUR and AAR voltage are off the rear pump circuit.

jcc911 04-23-2017 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff NJ (Post 9561672)
No, it has to be running to get 12v. the pumps and the entire cis electrical system do nothing unless the car is running.

A 930 has two pumps, so is your single (assuming 044) in the front or rear? The WUR and AAR voltage are off the rear pump circuit.

Ok maybe I can convince the wife to hold idle while I test again.

jcc911 04-23-2017 12:59 PM

Or would I get 12V if I jump the FP?

jcc911 04-23-2017 01:07 PM

Yeah it worked. 11.64v with key on and FP jumped.

Jeff NJ 04-23-2017 01:57 PM

Do you have an AFR gauge installed?

How about a fuel pressure tester?

Either of those will help you to quickly either confirm or eliminate fueling as a problem.

jcc911 04-23-2017 03:10 PM

AFR is not installed yet, and do not have a fuel pressure tester, but am looking for one now.

Jeff NJ 04-23-2017 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcc911 (Post 9561827)
AFR is not installed yet, and do not have a fuel pressure tester, but am looking for one now.

Don't buy the one from harbor freight. Ask me how I know...:mad:

jcc911 04-23-2017 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff NJ (Post 9561839)
Don't buy the one from harbor freight. Ask me how I know...:mad:

Thanks for the tip, I was looking at this one.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008FJXA3M/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX 0DER

jcc911 04-29-2017 03:20 AM

Ok guys CIS gauge should arrive today.
What is the sequence to test?
What numbers should I be looking for?

Thanks.

jcc911 04-29-2017 10:59 AM

So, the fittings for this CIS tester do not fit.
Any idea what size the fittings are? I've read 12 x 1.5 but that was for SCs, is the 930 WUR fittings different?

Bob Kontak 04-29-2017 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcc911 (Post 9569389)
So, the fittings for this CIS tester do not fit.
Any idea what size the fittings are? I've read 12 x 1.5 but that was for SCs, is the 930 WUR fittings different?

I can't see your set up so I am speaking softly.

On my SC, I have tested the fuel pressures by using the fitting on the warm up regulator and not the distributor.

Are the 930 lines and fittings bigger? Probably? Don't know for sure.

Procedure in short. Get the tester in the system between the dist center line and where it enters the WUR. The tester should have the shut off valve AFTER the T that feeds the gauge.

Unplug the electrical thingie from the WUR. Cold engine. Dead cold.

Turn shut off valve to off. No fuel passes by this. Energize fuel pump. This is system pressure.

Turn valve to open. Energize fuel pump. This is cold control pressure.

Plug WUR thingie back in. Start car with valve open. Watch pressure rise. Wait till it stops rising. This is warm control pressure.

Will look for a graph now.

Bob Kontak 04-29-2017 12:16 PM

Check this thread out. One BAR of force = 14.5 psi of force.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/617772-checking-fuel-pressure-cold-pics-help.html

jcc911 04-29-2017 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak (Post 9569436)
I can't see your set up so I am speaking softly.

On my SC, I have tested the fuel pressures by using the fitting on the warm up regulator and not the distributor.

Are the 930 lines and fittings bigger? Probably? Don't know for sure.

The problem is the CIS tester I purchased has quick disconnect ends that attach to the different male/female ends in the kit. The issue is that the female disconnect fittings supplied in the kit do not seem to fit on the male fitting that is on the WUR.

If I knew what size the male fitting is on the WUR I could see if the kit has the correct female fitting.

Bob Kontak 04-29-2017 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcc911 (Post 9569473)
The problem is the CIS tester I purchased has quick disconnect ends that attach to the different male/female ends in the kit. The issue is that the female disconnect fittings supplied in the kit do not seem to fit on the male fitting that is on the WUR.

If I knew what size the male fitting is on the WUR I could see if the kit has the correct female fitting.

Is process of elimination a possibility? Again, I am not there so I am far from helpful.

jcc911 05-10-2017 06:24 PM

Finally was able to pick up a HF tester and after tightening up the fittings a 2nd time....
The system pressure at 48F was 85 psi and the cold pressure was 25. Both seem to be right on spec.
Will check the warm pressure Sunday.


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