1973 Photo - Did RSRs come like this?

[Jack Olsen]

It's from when the car was new, but it doesn't have the traditional RSR front bumper at all. It's interesting to me, because it's exactly the flare and fender look I've been thinking about (eventually) for my car. RSR flares. S-style bumper (I guess it was used on the 911ST, too).

Interesting...

[Rustbucket]

Jack....what makes you think it was an RSR?

Could have been an S or an RS with what looks like ST Flares in the rear.

Definately not RSR flares. (maybe in front)

[pwd72s]

Note the 1972 oil flap....

[cegerer]

72 ST I say. Looks like an oil filler on the side. I like the look too. In fact, I like the early ST look even better: front & rear flares and no front or rear spoilers! -- Curt

[Jack Olsen]

You're right. But this one must have further-widened rear flares. Didn't the ST have the same 9-inch flares front and rear?

[Randy W]

That's Michael Keyser's 1972 911ST buit by the factory and raced throughout 1972 in the World Championship of Makes, including LeMans. See Toad Hall on the internet for more info.

[pwd72s]

Thanks Randy. If ONLY today's 996 Racers had 1/2 that "way cool" look....

[Randy W]

Jack, the 911ST was made from '70-72 (exact number is unknown to me, but I have heard about twenty). Flares were 9" front and rear but different than the turbo - a bit more rounded or bulbous, if you will. The 1970 ST had a early 911 front bumper made out of fiberglass (as was the hood). The rear deck lid was without spoiler and made out of aluminum, same as the 70-71 S. In 1972, they made a change to the front bumper - it looks like the S spoiler model, but also out of fiberglass (some very early Euro '72 911S cars actualy came with this fiberglass spoiler, according to the factory manual).

[Bill Verburg]

Its a 72 ST 2.5, here are some more;

[CamB]

One of the Excellences over the last couple of years (vague huh?) has a picture of a Brumos 911ST from Mexico. The article focuses about 50:50 on the history of the car (was it or wasn't it the IMSA winning ST) and the restoration. The car was on the cover.

What I remember was it looked the pic above, more or less.

And it had special 10.5" minilites. From memory, the rear arches were modified by Brumos, presumably out to about 10.5"... close to 11".

I had a flash of brilliance recently and decided the minilites were probably because they hadn't invented >7" wide Fuchs at that point.

I can try and find the article, but couldn't do that until at earliest tomorrow.

[CamB]

I also found these pictures on the 'net a while ago:

[orbmedia]

Shweeeet!

Does anyone have a closeup of how the rear decklid is secured with those rubber latches?

[GregS]

The issue of Excellence Cam is referring to is August, 1999. It contains some pretty interesting info.

[pwd72s]

Yep Greg...and a pretty interesting debate followed, didn't it? If memory serves....

[GregS]

It sure did. The last I ever saw or heard of it was the quote from Haywood (in the article) - "I never drove that car." I wonder if that was the resolution or whether the debate went on?

[pwd72s]

Yessir...I too, have often wondered about this. But since the game being played is way out of my $$$ league? Have to admit, I haven't lost sleep over it. But if I were among the tall dogs, those who can make the tree wet much higher than us mere mortals? I'd always wonder about this car, yeah I would...

[GregS]

Yours and mine both, I'd guess. Still, whether it was authentic or not, the finished product was impressive.

[pwd72s]

Agreed. But thinking about it...even at lower levels, I have seen counterfeit "S" cars. Kudos to Jack and others...not at all ashamed to tell that their cars started out as 911T's. It sure doesn't make them any less amazing in my eyes...

[Randy W]

Thanks for the photos, Bill and Cam. Can either of you post links to where you found them? I think these may be the next group of cars to be replicated by early 911 enthusiasts. For the most part, these cars remain in obscurity - there is actually more written about the 911R. With the multitude of RS look 911s out there, people (like Jack) are looking to express themselves in another style that is still true to the heritage of the early 911. Raceline in Germany (see archives for info), has created cars with these same ST flares, so they may be a possible source. If anyone else knows of someone replicating these unique flares, please post it here - Thanks.

Paul, funny you mention the T. As you probably know, some of Porsche's early victories in the Monte Carlo Rally came in 911Ts, and the other car that is unique like the '70-72 ST, is the '68 TR - a factory rally car based on the 911T. The owner of one of these told me he will be bringing it to Cambria - should be a big hit.

[racemor]

Interesting to see the Brumos-ish car come up in conversation. I saw this car at auction at Monterey in '99. Does anyone know if it sold or for how much? It was after the debate on its originality so I would assume that the comments did not help its value.

tm