Just wanted to bump this. Anybody willing to share some dyno-tuned ignition maps? My current map is below, I'm always making tweaks cuz I'm manic but admit I have no idea what I'm really doing. Eventually I'll get some knock sensors thrown on or take it to an expert, but for now this seems to be working alright and it hasn't blown up yet.

'83 small port 3.0
964 cams
ITBs
330cc injectors
single-plug
Denso COPs

https://i.imgur.com/3KN4QRw.png?2

Post #20 is a map that was created while on a dyno with knock ears attached. My setup is pretty similar except I think I'm stock cams.

The cruising cells (on the interstate or highway not really accelerating just maintaining speed) are with throttle around 5-10%. Running 45° or so there allows you to run a lean afr and get nice improvements in mpg.
Anothing above 25% throttle is usually pretty much accelerating and more caution required.

I'd lower the timing in your 20% -80% cells and raise the 5-15% cells some. 25% throttle on ITBs is pretty much "giving it some beans".

Also, make sure you have your throttle calibrated and are truly seeing 100%

Thank you shamrok and pampadori, these last two posts are exactly what I’ve been looking for. I’ve been trying to resolve a low load cruise in the 2400 to 3200 range for two years now - particularly worse when the engine is fully warmed up. My next tweak is adjusting the MAT density correction curve (based on jpnovak’s post many years ago, then I’ll head back into the timing map.

Beyond that, I’m also considering heading back to a large port CIS system - I don’t really want to as I’d lose the responsiveness of EFI.

@marwill,

Check your injector PW at these low load cruise areas. Often the PW is too short approaching the dead time of the injectors. If you do not have dead time accurately set then you will have issues trying to lean out. The system will force you to run longer PW (too rich) just so that the physical injector latency time can keep up.

Also check your PW at WOT max rpm. It is possible that you have too large of injectors to accurately cover the entire range of fuel delivery.

With MS2 you can also check the number of squirts. If this number is too high it will force short injector PW times.

@jpnovak - the injectors are 24 lb Bosch EV6 models I bought from Five-O Motorsports last fall. They provided a data sheet showing the flow rate at different pressures for each injector. They also provided dead time data from 7 through 18 volts. I've included the data below. I must admit that I've been a poor customer as I found the car didn't run as well with their dead times. Based on their data I should be using a dead time of about 0.51 ms at 13.2 volts, however, I'm using 0.9 ms as a dead time. Given what you noted about the rich running condition if the dead times are off I should generate a new tune based on the suggested values from Five-O. The injection pulse width I generally see the issue with is in the 1.9 to 2.2 ms range, In terms of injector squirts I'm using 2 squirts simultaneously per cycle and the injectors are wired 1/2/3 on one bank and 4/5/6 on the other.

Volts Dead Time (ms)
7 - 2.0213
8 - 1.5957
9 - 1.2766
10 - 1.0638
11 - 0.8156
12 - 0.6383
13 - 0.5319
14 - 0.4255
15 - 0.3901
16 - 0.3191
17 - 0.2128
18 - 0.1064

Mark

Here is my initial ignition map for my cis to efi turbo conversion...

Stock 3.0CIS engine but with 9.5:1 compression. Stock SC Cams. Single plug.
Stock headers with J Pipe. Turbo is a Pulsar 3076 0.63a/r. EFI using 3.2 manifolds and Ecumaster Emu Black.
Wastegate is Tial F46P with 0.5 Bar Spring
Engine starts and runs well. Drives OK but I have been very gentle and not seeing boost often.
Would appreciate some pointers on where to go from here (yes, a dyno and pro tune is on the cards)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1709852892.jpg

Here is the ignition map for my 75 Carrera 2.7 after convervsion to ITB EFI from Al Kosmal's x-faktory.com option#2 (EFI + ECU control of timing) and dyno tuning by Gary Bains at Bains Tuning (San Jose, CA). The engine is stock bottom end 2.7 S motor with SSI's, Bursch muffler:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1709868354.png

Looking at Spuggy's map above, I think I might be quite conservative? Also, I'm pretty sure his motor is twin plugged where mine is single...

Aftermarket headers would probably improve response/spool quite a lot...

Don't forget a non-return valve if you retained the IAC, else it'll be leaking boost through that...

If you don't have an IAC, you'll probably be fitting one eventually. I know I've concluded it's the only way to get the warmup behavior I would prefer.. :D

A 0.5 bar spring will be wide open at 0.5 bar - and in practice will crack off the seat long before the rated pressure, it's IMHO way too soft to hold a large wastegate closed.

When I ran the same wastegate with a 0.5 bar spring w/ boost control, it leaked boost like crazy - as demonstrated by a 0.8 bar spring making a night and day difference to spool. My BOV dumps boost between shifts now if I run RPMs up with almost no load at all.

Running a higher spring pressure not an option with a low-boost setup of course. And complicated by the fact that with a 3-port MAC, you can only rely on spring pressure to keep it closed.

However, if you use a 4-port MAC, you can utilize diverted boost to augment spring pressure to keep it closed until the desired setting is achieved.

I think that'd help a low-boost setup significantly. You need to make the most of what you can use.

Heh. I was reading Juan's account of how much boost he runs recently, and thinking "I don't need 700+ WHP exactly - but maybe a 1.2 bar target is kind of wimpy..." Followed by "I should fit that GTX35R sometime..." LOL. It's just hard to get motivated to take the car apart when it already runs pretty darned sweet...

26 degrees on boost is factory timing for a RoW 930/60 - it'll hit that figure as soon as any boost at all gets done backing out all the mech advance imparted by the vacuum pot. I run knock control, and never saw knock under boost (touch wood). So that' seems to be in the ballpark of conservative.

I ran 35 degrees of timing off-boost single-plugged on CIS. Huge improvement in response/pickup over factory timing - especially low/mid-range..

For mid-range - and especially low-load cruise - you should be able to run plenty of timing. It should snarl along sounding kind of angry - and give you loads of response.

Pretty sure the factory were simply (a) conservative and (b) working around the limits of what they could do with a distributor and the advance curve.

Look at 3.2 or 964/993 (remember these are twin-plugged) ignition maps for the N/A portion - and remember those are factory maps.

But every motor is different, they don't all respond the same - so listen to what it's telling you.

A guy posted his ignition map, similar motor build/spec to mine on paper - apparently the result of a pro-dyno tune for maximum power, no knock and optimal CHTs. Much more conservative timings than mine, but I tried it anyway. For me, it was not an improvement in any way and it did not stay loaded long...

Yeh, twin-plugged/COP 3.4 with 8:1 J&Es, thermal coatings from the piston crowns to the turbine flange...

Full-size plugs on the bottom because they pull more heat out of the combustion chamber than the smaller ones. Still running 3DPOs because they're insanely cold - plus I've yet to foul a single one, ever, even running pig rich with (spit) CIS in town in the dark ages... In fact, 6-10mpg stoplight-to-stoplight (exactly the same as the track) was a big motivator to go EFI. That and the typical "going lean over 5K" problem.

Hey. I'm doing a megasquirt setup these days to revive my 930. I got a 60-2 wheel and dfus from Clewett and struggle with the tooth #1 btcd. Could you guys share some screenshots of the settings in fueling, ignition and engine settings please :)

updated ignition map
 

Just wanted to update and share.
Had the car on the dyno to check afrs and make sure it isnt pinging.

Didnt really aim for max torque - more just to make sure it's safe. The emu black ecu seems a little fiddly to get knock control sorted...

Engine is a 3.0SC with 97.. turbo barrels and 9.5:1 max moritz pistons.
Stock heat exchangers
3.2 Intake manifolds
Pulsar 3076R turbo
Intercooler

power at wheels was 297 and torque was 400Nm. On the street, the car feels quite punchy but I'm well aware of my 915 gearbox.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1726173613.png

https://i.imgur.com/8Ld37Bjl.png

G'day! My mechanic has been struggling to get decent results tuning my car and was asking for a VE table.
I have a 1978 3.0l SC engine, ( in my 914)
i believe japanese spec with carrera cams and larger intake manifolds.
modified original CIS baseplate with a single airintake.
i briefly drove the car and it missfires,runs rough and in the last couple of weeks went through 4 sets of plugs..runs very rich
any help would be greatly appreciated..
Cheers Marty

VE table from another person won't really help you due to all the variables that can go into fueling.

Does the ECU have an autotune feature? If it does, it will tune the VE table based on target AFRs, which will be a separate table. Depending on the software, there's probably a setting to determine how easily it will change VE cells. Set this to the easiest threshold so that it will change almost instantly, fire up the car and the car should start running better pretty quickly. Take a short drive, it may give you some grief while it's learning, but it will get better. Once it's relatively smooth, raise the cell change difficulty threshold.

Here's my AFR table, and there are others on the forum but this has worked for me for about 4 years now and should give you plenty of fuel everywhere.

https://pics.poole.dev/i/9aa10dca-e4...ccd4954fc6.jpg

What ECU?

Might me time for a new mechanic, or at least a dyno shop.


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Hi,yes sorry forgot...
Rasant/Infinity kit.. AEM 8H ECU
thanks for the help!
i ll have a chat with a guy from a dyno shop tomorrow,just hope they can fit me in,just got the engineer sign off the car and i have 30 days to register it..thanks again guys.much appreciate it!