Want to relocate Carrera oil cooler to front mount, how do I extend lines?

Colby · 02-14-2003, 07:41 PM

I sold my lower 930S style valance and have a RS style bumper on its way. So, now that I have a place to mount a front mount cooler, I intend to take full advantage of this space! BTW, I plan to start racing w/ the PCA next summer and am prepping the car for road and race use. I already have a decent oil cooler (it is an '84 cooler, the rows of aluminum tubes..different than the later Carrera coolers but still ok, right?) so at this point I would like to just relocate it up front and see of that does the job. I can make the mounts on my own, I just need to lengthen the hoses by about 3-4 feet. Any easy way to do this? Any suggestions would be much appreciated. Also any comments on how the Carrera cooler will perform up there vs. either 1) an RX-7 cooler or 2) a big bucks aftermarket cooler.

Many thanks!

Colby

Joeaksa · 02-14-2003, 08:13 PM

How about adding an additional cooler AND using the Carrera cooler in the fender? Anyone have the scoop on this as well?

Thx,

JoeA

Colby · 02-14-2003, 08:18 PM

Searching the archives it appears this is what most ppl do. It also looks like I found my answer; -16AN lines are what go in/out of the Carrera cooler. So Aeroquip -16AN lines should hook right up? Guess I'll leave the Carrera cooler in place and tack on the RX7 cooler and see how that goes!

Any other suggestions/comments?

Colby

911pcars · 02-15-2003, 12:26 AM

Neither cooler (Carrera or RX7) will fit in the opening provided by the RS front bumper unless you perform some front sheet metal surgery. I used an Earls cooler (#25012) which fits behind the bumper w/o any sheet metal mods. The dimensions are 7" wide x 2" thick x 15 5/16" long, enter/exit one end. If you're using -16 lines, use #25016. The fit is tight with hardly any room for exit air. Still, my oil temps don't go over 210ºF (w/rs type 2.7), but that's not in a racing situation. I used -12 braided directly to factory oil lines. Not sure about installing -16 hose which requires a larger bend radius.

Plumbing a front mounted cooler in series with your Carrera cooler is a good idea and will give you more cooling cushion (not sure what engine size you have). You'll need a metric-to-AN adapter (30mm to -12 or -16) to go from the factory cooler to the -AN cooler. You can get it from Pegasus Racing. Pegasus also carries stainless steel mesh which is stiff enough to ward off rocks and most loose car parts. Look at Summit Racing for the AN stuff and Earls - usually good prices.

Hope this helps,
Sherwood Lee
http://members.rennlist.org/911pcars

Joeaksa · 02-15-2003, 05:55 AM

Sherwood,

As usual, great info! Appreciate the help and I am putting a 3.6 from Bill Verburg in my 85 model car. Since the 3.6 does not have a cooler built onto the motor I am going to have to increase my oil cooling capacity and thus will have the second cooler up front.

Will try it first without the "surgery" on my front trunk area and hope the oil stays cool!

Thx,

Joe

cary · 02-15-2003, 06:19 AM

I'm no expert. Buuuut I think if you do it right. You can get away with one oil cooler. I think that the Setrab set up is the way to go. One size for 3.0 and 3.2s. And another for the 3.6's.

Dave at TRE is someone I'd talk to. He has a kit for both.
As soon as my shop is finished. I'm upgrading to one of Dave's kit.

Another factor to consider is sitting in traffic. Then your requirements are different. You need a fan to get air moving/sucking thru the fins.

My only other comment. The more connections, more places to leak.

Colby · 02-15-2003, 06:26 AM

There's always a "best way" to do things, and usually several "good ways" which are still right.

Best way = big money
good ways = more time and creativity than cash!

Hehehe, I fall under the latter. I really want to avoid spending $500-$1000 installing an oil cooler if there is a $200 solution.

I would rather not cut into the front for air clearance and will therefore stick w/ as narrow of a cooler as possible. Once the bumper gets here, I'll determine what can fit.

But getting the lines there sounds fairly simple. 30mm to -12/-16AN (i've done my homework, i know the debate here) adapter, hose, AN adapter into cooler, AN adapter out of cooler, hose, another 30mm to AN adapter.

Sounds pretty straightforward. Since I'm not getting a top notch cooler, I will keep the Carrera cooler in place and run a second in series.

Thanks everyone!

cary · 02-15-2003, 06:32 AM

Joe, Good Morning.

Doing my research. Both TRE in LA and Rothsport/Rennsport in Portland do a lot of Setrab coolers with 3.2 and 3.6 conversions.

Dave at TRE has a kit. Cooler, lines & HARDWARE. He has the tabs that you weld to the tub to stand out the oil cooler. ( The important part ). Plus the vibration isolators to mount the cooler.

Just research, no affiliation.

cary · 02-15-2003, 06:40 AM

Colby, I think Dave's smaller kit is around $600.

Don't make the mistake I made when I redid my long oil lines.
Make a complete list of the lines, fitting and cooler. Add it up. Then compare to the kit.

The Setrab is the middle cost option. B & B is the top shelf option.

Good Luck ...................

JUST WENT OVER 1000 POSTS

Bill Verburg · Bill Verburg's Garage

Joe, I highly recommend sticking w/ the normal fender mount w/ fan and a small valance mount in series. Thanks again for your patience.

The valance mounts are very efficient as long as the car is moving.

Sherwood is correct, the fender mount coolers have the wrong shape to fit in a valance. In the valance you need a long short, thin cooler. A normal B&B at 5 1/2" X 2 1/4" X 20" is about as big as you can fit. Thinner is better <2.25" you can go a bit longer in the length(but you don't need the extra cooling and there will be additional fitment probs), the height @5.5" is just about perfect for a Ruf type opening. The Typical RS or IROC opening is a bit taller.

Chuck Moreland · 02-15-2003, 07:44 AM

In my experience, a valance mount is of limited value (maybe 1/2 as effective) unless you notch the tub behind it to allow improved airlow. Oil coolers are all about air flow and with a sheet metal wall just behind the fins, not much air flows.

Bill Verburg · Bill Verburg's Garage

In my experience a single B&B valance mount as described above over cools the oil w/ no mods to the tub. The '73 and earlier cars do have less room in that area and I have no experience w/ them.
If it is indeed 1/2 as effective(i have no idea of the effect) it's still more than adequate.

Here is a shot from below showing the exit

Chuck Moreland · 09:30 AM

Later cars do have a bit more room, mostly due the the large bumper valance. And it depends on the valance you choose too.

Good enough is good enough, but if your going to push the car hard on the track you just can't get too much oil cooling capacity. Notching the tub makes a big difference on later cars too.

Joeaksa · 09:52 AM

Cary and Bill,

Thanks for the advise. I am going to "backdate" my 85 and use the 72 RS front with an opening for the cooler. It looks like Bill's style of oil cooler will fit fine and work without any mods to the tub. For me having too coolers is also a safety factor for my motor.

Our problem out here is that after 1 June it gets to 100 every day (sometimes over) and stays that way until late Sept, and with the A/C turned on the oil temp is a limiting factor. I would rather have too much cooler and be able to drive all the year than save a few hundred bucks and be limited.

Great info!

Joe

KTL · 02-15-2003, 10:00 AM

Chuck,

Elephant has the necessary metric hose fittings for the oil lines, correct?

Colby would not need the Pegasus Racing metric to AN adapter fittings if he were to use your metric fittings?

antares · antares's Garage

As to Colby's selling his 930S valance and obtaining a RS valance, could you not use the 930S valance with front oil cooler. I have a Ruf style 930S lookalike fiberglass one that I installed on my 79 Targa from Better Bodies. Ihave been considering installing a cooler up in front and it looks like it will fit with enough rear clearance thanks to Bill Verburgs input and demensions, however is there a problem I don't know about when considering doing it with the Ruf style 930s figerglass valance ... Anyone?? I originally wanted to install the fan/cooler not in the front valance but behind the passengers rear wheel since I have vented skirts Ruf look (slant nose look without the slant nose) which with that look was originally adapted for the 935's which had water/air cooled heads. However, it has been brought up that these coolers back there had to contend with a lot of crap being thrown up from the wheels and needed to be shrouded. But they did have very good air flow. So I am considering the front as a option and it looks like less work. Any feedback on helping me decide my options would be great

Antares
fatnwide

Chuck Moreland · 02-15-2003, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KTL
Chuck,

Elephant has the necessary metric hose fittings for the oil lines, correct?

Colby would not need the Pegasus Racing metric to AN adapter fittings if he were to use your metric fittings?

Yes, I have metric hose ends that let you make your own hoses without adapters. Those adapters can run the price of plumbing up real fast.

You can order the hose ends through pelican, you will have to phone the order in and tell them to get the fittings from Elephant since they don't have them in the catalog.

Colby · 02-15-2003, 04:23 PM

You can't see very well from this pic, but the valance only had two narrow slits in it. My dad has a front oil cooler that works well for this type of hole, but I also wanted to lose some weight up front so I went ahead and replaced it w/ a rs bumper.

I'll call Pelican Monday and order some 30mm hose ends, thanks for the lead!

Colby