How To Measure Toe In/OUt?

[North Coast Cab]

How or where do you measure the Toe on the F/R of the 911? Many refer to 1/8 out or 1/16 and I'm not 100% sure where that measurement is taken.

TIA, John

[KTL]

John,

When you use the string method, the toe is measured from the string to the front and rear of the wheel rim. Then take the difference between the two measurements to get the toe.



There's a topic here on the board that posted Ray Scruggs alignment book- that's where the above image came from. Do a search and you should find the rest of the pages. If not, let me know and i'll send them to you.

[North Coast Cab]

Thanks Kevin. Stupid me has the Scruggs book.

[Wil Ferch]

Not so fast..that's where problems begin...with semantics.....

some people measure "inches of toe" at the edge of the tire...instead of edge of the rim...can be off by more than 100% that way..if you didn't capture the true intent. ( rim diamter is 15-16" ,for example, and tire diametr may be 24-27"...etc)

Toe is *best* described in minutes or degrees...no confusion that way....

- Wil

[Hayabusa]

IN~N~OUT



Now, I'm hungry,, thanks!

[Doug Steinel]

Is that burger chain the one that Hugh Heffner does the ad for?

[Hayabusa]

Originally posted by Doug Steinel
Is that burger chain the one that Hugh Heffner does the ad for?

Nope, that was Carl's Jr.

In November of 2003, Carl's Jr. and Hardee's began a television advertisement campaign, that featured Hugh Hefner, the founder of the Playboy empire. The purpose of the ad campaign was to "humorously allude[s] to [his] enjoyment of variety" -- in comparison to the fast-food chain's variety in their menu.

The commercial featured Hugh Hefner speaking in documentary format. "People always ask me: 'Hey, Hef. Do you have favorites?' I tell 'em, 'No -- It's not about that." Three young, alluring women then offer their insights into Hefner's plight. "He can have anything he wants. I don't know how he makes the choice," says the first woman. The second says, "I feel for Hef. It's so hard to choose." And finally the third: "I don't know how he does it." Hefner's response? "I love 'em all. It just depends on what I'm in the mood for." The commercial concludes with Hefner biting into a hamburger while the announcer says: "Because some guys don't like the same thing night after night."

[rnln]

May I ask what is the recommended specification for toe and camber?
Thanks.

[Wil Ferch]

rnln:

It depends...."factory stock" for your car is something like 15 minutes toe-in ( total...for two wheels)..and close to zero camber or just a smidge negative.

Performace/street compromise settings have been posted on these pages before...lot's to read..it's all a compromise....

- Wil

[rnln]

Thanks Wil,
I assume that 15mm toe in is for the front. So it's should be around 7.5mm each side?
Again, thanks.

[imcarthur]

Here is the service sheet showing the 'factory' settings. Note 15" wheel size.



Posted by another Pelican a while back.

Ian

[Wil Ferch]

Yes...15 minutes total toe in would ideally be 7.5 minutes / each wheel.

We needn't get overly concerned with anal levels of mesurement ( think about what 0.5 minutes means...with 60 minutes = 1 degree...and 360 degrees = a circle)...and recognizing our cars are bushed in large diameter rubber !

- Wil

[rnln]

umm.. that means 0 or very closed to 0 to be exact.

[Wil Ferch]

rnln:
I think you're missing a crucial aspect of the reason to run toe.

No.. I would "not" use zero as my target.....even though 7.5-8 minutes of toe each side is a small number. Why?....... because a small amount of toe-in "pre-loads" the suspension to take out any kind of slack within all the various pins and bushings. If you run zero toe..or "no pre-load", the wheel can ( microscopically) flop back and forth ...left to right...as you attempt to go straight down the road. We can call this backlash. This small amount of toe-in loads the tires...ever so slightly...as if each wheel is turning toward the inside of the car and taking up all the slack in all the pivots and joints...

My original point is that we need only say to use a "smidge" of toe-in. Obviously, this would not work as a "factory specification" so a small number , like 15 minutes total for both sides...is used. I was trying to answer the concern that splitting 15 minutes in half results in ridiculously small resolution...like half-of-minutes. We needn't be too concerned if the final ajustment is 10 minutes total or 17 minutes total....

- Wil

[rnln]

umm.. Thanks Wil.
Lesson learn, 15 minutes front (both side total)
How about rear?
My car is the normal none turbo but conveted to wide boddy and is using wheels adapter, if any diff.

[88911coupe]

I'm having a hard time converting my measurements into something meaningful. I realize this is a trig problem but I don't know trig. I just very carefully measured my '88 and got the following using the pin and string method on the centerline of the tire.
Front I have 1/16th inch total toe in, rears I have 3/16 total toe in. Is this close to what it needs to be?
Thanks!

[KTL]

Well 1/8" is 7.5 minutes. So if you've got 1/16" of total toe, you've got around 3.75 minutes of total toe.

Scruggs alignment book has some good recommended numbers for street vs. track.



BTW that writing you see on the pages is RoninLB's writing. Thanks Ronnie and RIP my friend........

[TDIDog]

Does anyone know if Rays book is still available? I wouldn't mind getting a copy.
Thanks

[KTL]

Somebody did a search for him not too long ago and found him- it was discussed here. Try searching Scruggs?

I don't recall if he still sold them. I want to say we just emailed copies of it to whoever wanted one and many decided to send Ray some $ as a thank you for producing the DIY alignment book.

[TDIDog]

Kevin, I'll check into it. keep you posted.
Thanks