need help finding titanium springs

[Trakrat]

All,
I'm trying to find some place that sells lighter valve springs, but with the same strength.

I found some places (Patrick Motorsports, TurboKraft, etc..) that sells the springs, but they are a higher strength.

As I've been reading that a higher strength spring puts too much load on the cam and is only useful for engines running well above stock rpm limits, I was looking for something that provides a faster spring response to keep from floating valves, but not wear down the cam.

Any suggestions?
Thanks all for your help.

[Ken911]

didnt know anyore made titanium springs. They make titanium retainers and locks. My motor has the eibach high pressure springs and titanium retainers and locks from Xtreem.

[Matt Monson]

How high are you planning to rev it?

[Trakrat]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

How high are you planning to rev it?

I don't want to go over 7500... but I do wind out the engine to the upper RPM limits when I drive.

[Cory M]

You are confusing strength and stiffness. The stiffness of a spring, or spring rate, is a measure of the force required to compress the spring. Measured in lb/in or kg/mm. The strength is basically a measure of how much force it takes to break the part.

[Trakrat]

Originally Posted by Cory M

You are confusing strength and stiffness. The stiffness of a spring, or spring rate, is a measure of the force required to compress the spring. Measured in lb/in or kg/mm. The strength is basically a measure of how much force it takes to break the part.

Thanks for clarifying it for me. So are you able to help me find a spring that has stock stiffness, or spring rate.... but is made out of a lighter alloy than the original OEM springs?

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by Trakrat

I don't want to go over 7500... but I do wind out the engine to the upper RPM limits when I drive.

IMO, you aren't revving high enough to worry about an issue with the stock springs. The Ti springs are great for a race motor that comes apart and gets rebuilt often. For even the most serious street rod build they tend to be overkill. I am currently working on a 2.5l short stroke engine with 7500 rpm rev limit and I will be reusing my stock springs. If I spend the $$$ for titanium in my build it will be rods, where the rotating mass matters.

[Trakrat]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

IMO, you aren't revving high enough to worry about an issue with the stock springs. The Ti springs are great for a race motor that comes apart and gets rebuilt often. For even the most serious street rod build they tend to be overkill. I am currently working on a 2.5l short stroke engine with 7500 rpm rev limit and I will be reusing my stock springs. If I spend the $$$ for titanium in my build it will be rods, where the rotating mass matters.

Thanks Matt... but I've already had to do a rebuild thanks to my valves floating.... I don't want to do that again... thus why I'm looking for springs that can keep up with the engine. Obviously the stock springs aren't doing the job.

[Ryan H]

The Eibach 911 valve springs would suffice.

Ryan

[turbo owner]

Originally Posted by Trakrat

All,
I'm trying to find some place that sells lighter valve springs, but with the same strength.

I found some places (Patrick Motorsports, TurboKraft, etc..) that sells the springs, but they are a higher strength.

As I've been reading that a higher strength spring puts too much load on the cam and is only useful for engines running well above stock rpm limits, I was looking for something that provides a faster spring response to keep from floating valves, but not wear down the cam.

Any suggestions?
Thanks all for your help.

Look for lighter valves, retainers and keepers. Lighter springs are not the answer.

[Cory M]

For what it's worth we've used the Aasco performance springs with Ti retainers on the track for years with no issues. This is with a 7k rpm limit and occasional over revs. After about 4 seasons of racing the cams had minor pitting on a couple of lobes.

[Bill Verburg]

I'd use AASCO springs and Ti retainers

Ti valves too if you really want to ice the cake.

[Trakrat]

Originally Posted by turbo owner

Look for lighter valves, retainers and keepers. Lighter springs are not the answer.

Valves are definitely something I will look into, any suggestion on what to look for?

What's a good place that sells highly reliable, lighter valves?

[turbo owner]

Originally Posted by Trakrat

Valves are definitely something I will look into, any suggestion on what to look for?

What's a good place that sells highly reliable, lighter valves?

http://www.delwestengineering.com/documents/Del_West_RTS_Catalog.pdf

[Trakrat]

Originally Posted by turbo owner

http://www.delwestengineering.com/documents/Del_West_RTS_Catalog.pdf

perfect! thank you! Have you used them or know anything about this shop?

[KTL]

The Eibach springs are indeed sufficient for your intended rpm range. As the other guys indicated, the AASCO spring & retainer kit is a good one too. Been a great choice for a long, long time. So is EBS Racing's VMax kit. Kibblewhite also makes a kit for the old 911

Racing Spring Kit, Titanium, 0.540" Lift, Porsche®, 2 Valve - 911/930/964,Â*| Kibblewhite Precision Machining, Inc

But if you're not moving away from the 3.2 intake manifold, you're losing a TON of power and not able to take advantage of that increased rev limit. You also need to strongly consider stronger rods at that rpm level. The 3.3/3.3/3.6 rods are at their limit at 7000 rpm with ARP or Raceware bolts. Push them to 7500 all the time, especially a sustained duration like running to the top of 4th and into 5th at a track with a loooooooong straight and you're asking too much of those rods.

If you go with titanium valves, I believe you need to use a valve guide made of different material than the standard guides are made of. Or is it the valve seat material in the head? I forget......

[turbo owner]

Originally Posted by Trakrat

perfect! thank you! Have you used them or know anything about this shop?

They are a premier parts provider for the racing industry, I called and spoke with them about making valves for a Porsche engine.

They said they would but would need a minimum order of 16 of each to justify the tooling set up.

You might give Chris at turbocraft a call to see if he has any ideas, or see if anybody on the board wants to have some made.

Patrick motorsports might be another place to check, they do retainers and keepers but no mention of valves.

[TimT]

You don't need Ti springs... Get some valves with reduced diameter valve stems..valves that fit..Beehive springs.. and Ti retainers and keepers..

[Trakrat]

Originally Posted by KTL

But if you're not moving away from the 3.2 intake manifold, you're losing a TON of power and not able to take advantage of that increased rev limit. You also need to strongly consider stronger rods at that rpm level. The 3.3/3.3/3.6 rods are at their limit at 7000 rpm with ARP or Raceware bolts. Push them to 7500 all the time, especially a sustained duration like running to the top of 4th and into 5th at a track with a loooooooong straight and you're asking too much of those rods.

If you go with titanium valves, I believe you need to use a valve guide made of different material than the standard guides are made of. Or is it the valve seat material in the head? I forget......

Well... I am planning on having my intake manifold ported & polished. I also thought about going with some carrillo rods, but some have said that the 3.2 rods are plenty strong as long as you put some ARP bolts in them.
On top of that, I am going with some 3.4 p&c and having just about everything I can be ported & polished.

Finally... I am going with 964 profile camshafts.

But you also bring up a good point... my concern is that I don't want to mismatch parts and find that getting a stronger or lighter part means that I am stressing another component beyond its limits.

[Ryan H]

We have a couple sets of the Eibach valve springs in stock if you want to go that direction.