911 head conversion -912 bottom end

[Jaems]

You might talk to John Benton over at the 912bbs. He is the 912 Registeries President, at this time. He has a machine business, in which he works on 912's and the like. he has built a couple duel spark pugs head engines and etc. He could probably tell you more about what is involved. I do not know him. However, everyone seems to hold him in high regards.

[Matt Monson]

So you are saying that there was actually something called a 912R from the factory? This is the first that I have ever heard of this. I own Barth's Porsche Book and several other "resource" books and they make no reference to a 912R. Can you steer me in the direction on what exactly is "R" spec on one of these and how many were made, etc etc?

A while back in the 11/05 (#142) issue of Excellence they did a story on John Benton's personal car. It's got almost two pages of the article dedicated to his twin plug engine and many of the things that they did to it. More recently, John Wilhoit has been getting a lot of press for his twin plugged 356/912 engines. It's something I've contemplated for my own engine if I ever get around to the 912. There's a couple of cars and engines in line in front of it before the '66 ever gets a wrench turned on it...

[Jaems]

All I have is a letter from the factory that said that it was a special order and shipped to Skandinavisk Motors in copenhagen. They in turned informed me that it was sent to their dealer in Aarhus. The dealership in Aarhus never returned any information to my inquires. I purchased it from a auction in California, in the later 60's.

A couple of folks from Europe told me they remember seeing one of them in a couple of races back in the late 60's or early 70's in Germany. But that is all they could remember. The factory never campaigned any of them because of their interest and energy in promoting the 911, 908, and 917s. From what I gather it was just a very limited production for a few special orders. It just had a little hotter engine and better suspension like the 911S. It also has instrumentation like the "S" and sport seats. The Sport seats in mine were long gone. When I purchased it. I guess someone else thought that they should have them. However, I have replaced them with some leather Italian seats of that type vintage. There was really no information of the engine spec.

I was lucky enough to have a friend that was factory trained and built racing engines for the Porsche teams in the late 60's and 70's. He was able to help figure out what the specs were or at least close to the originals. He also was not aware of this type of Porsche. He was mainly geared toward the 911's and 908's after the 911's came out in 64. He is also a good friend of Emory and Dean. In fact Gary was the one who originally turned me on to him.

That's all I know and also everything I got from the factory and their Kardex. It is just another one of those things that got lost to the ether. It just wasn't that important enough for the factory to keep detailed records. They weren't even interested in it when I asked about it back in the early 80's.

[micheloaks]

Interesting history Jaems...I had thought that the "R" appelation was purely in reference to the 911's...some form of homage. Apparently not. It would be great if anyone could come up with further info on these cars then... there is a dealer currently selling a 912R in the staes..Though I think this is just a 912 tricked up.

[micheloaks]

I am going to have a local engineer - stan pobjoy twin plug my heads. I have just sourced a pair (one cracked) that will be used as the test mules. If it is successful i will have the head repaired and use it on my motor.

Stan Pobjoy is currently twin plugging typ1 and type 4 VW motors for around $1300 Australian dollars including a distirbutor to suit. Read approx $550 euro and approx $900USD

reasonable i think. He has a website google stan pobjoy.

[fbarrett]

Originally Posted by Jaems

There was a whole list I had somewhere. Things like a CD box and pointless distributor, a hotter cam between 280-290 degrees. The heads were cleaner than the stock ones (ported and polished. 10:1 compression and forged lower end (pistons, rods, crank). The bore was not really increased any. A one piece intake manifold matched for the Webers. Also the jetting, stacks, and etc. was matched to the cam. I have detuned it a little for a smoother street drive.

The engine was not the only thing that made it an "R" the rest went with it. This was not a US car. It was strictly for the Euro market. The factory didn't want the "R" cars marketed in the US because of the low 911 sales, at the time. The factory was trying to convert the 356 owners to the 911. The 356 folks would of jumped at this car if it was made available. Very few were made and this particular car was originally shipped to Denmark. Over the years I have only met a couple of folks that had ever hear of the 912R and they were Europeans.

Jaems:

Interesting to learn. I've been a 912 Geek for 40 years and have never heard of a 912R. Was it a European factory option? Can you provide any other info or references (books, sales literature, tech specs, etc.)?

Thanks,

Frank
'65 912 (451326)

[fbarrett]

Originally Posted by Jaems

All I have is a letter from the factory that said that it was a special order and shipped to Skandinavisk Motors in copenhagen. They in turned informed me that it was sent to their dealer in Aarhus. The dealership in Aarhus never returned any information to my inquires.

Jaems:

Do you have a Porsche factory-issued Certificate of Authenticity on the car? I don't know if Danish owners can order one, but it would be very interesting to see how the car was originally optioned and described. How about a Kardex?

Frank

[Jaems]

It was for the Euro market only. The factory was trying to push the 911 sales, in the US, during this time. The 912 was out selling the 911. The 912 was cheaper and most of the 356 converts were buying the 912. Because of it's 356 type engine and they trusted the reliability of this engine. The 911 engine was a unknown factor at that time. Also the 912 was a better handling car than 911.

I do not have the Kardex. Just the letter from the factory they sent me. When I requested the Kardex information back in the 80's. The letter stated it was a special order and as far as I can recall things like the suspension size front and rear stabilizers, front oil cooler, R type 1600 engine and number, red leatherette interior, five instruments and type, fog lights, a Frankfurt radio, sport seats, five gears transaxle and number, chrome wheels, and silver metallic paint and number. The car sold for about 23,200 DM. I have no idea what it sold for in Denmark probably about 45,000 Kr.

The car no longer has the red leatherette interior, Frankfurt radio, chrome wheels, wood sterling wheel, nor the original sport seats. However, it doesn't make much difference. It will not be on the market. When I go. It will go along with a 65 Mustang to my cousin's two boys. By that time they will be old enough to enjoy them. Or I will just be buried in the 912. Until then I will just enjoy the ride.

[fbarrett]

Originally Posted by Jaems

Or I will just be buried in the 912.

Jaems:

I feel exactly the same about my '65. I've probably turned it into the equivalent of your car: 1,720 cc, 22/27-mm torsion bars, 911 front brakes, factory sport seats, 7-inch alloys with 50-series tires, etc. No radio, rubber floor mats; with half a tank of gas, it weighs 2,050 lb, so it surprises a lot of 911s at autocrosses or on the track.

Frank

[micheloaks]

Jaems if you bury yourself in the car do not let the whereabouts of the graveyard be known...!!!

Frank post a pic of the car. It's great to begin to get a feel for what other 912 nerds are doing or panning to do with the car and not the usual i put a 6 in the back and big RS flares.

I am about to embark on a rebuild of my 67 and am still throwing ideas around re: bodywork mods, interior and drive train. Once I get cracking i will start a thread detailing the rebuild.

cheers Michel

[fbarrett]

Michel:



Chassis number 451326

Frank

[micheloaks]

Frank and it isn't another bloody red 912! looks clean. What other mods etc?

Michel

[fbarrett]

Originally Posted by micheloaks

Frank and it isn't another bloody red 912! looks clean. What other mods etc?

Michel

Michel:

Not much, really. I bought it for $4K in February 1968 at 27,000 miles, used it as my everyday car for years, and it has about 165,000 on it now. Been restored, of course, and won its Parade concours class twice (big deal, three cars in the class). It'll be at the Parade in Colorado in July.

Frank

[MarKoBrow]

Just to get this thread back on track, Here are some preliminary pictures of the heads, cam housings and cylinders of my OHC type 4 engine

[MarKoBrow]

mock-up without the front.

[micheloaks]

Hi Mark any updates?

[MarKoBrow]

Hey Mike,
I am machining parts right now, if you look in picture you will notice the face has been cut off the Type 4 engine I am now in the process of machining a new face that will allow me to run my cams from the existing camshaft. I will post more pics as they become available.

[micheloaks]

mark further updates or have you been posting on another forum?

[MarKoBrow]

Hey Mike,

I have not gotten my camshafts back from the machine shop, and I have to figure out what I am going to do about a new face plate and the oil pump setup. Here is current picture in mockup stage.

[John TArsicwitz]

Hey Mark it's coming along! is that the original case or a type 4? I can't tell but it looks like you cut the face off of a type 4. What happened to the 912 block you started with?