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Question Delta Products MK10 Ignition

While going through the owners information packet from the original owner of my 69 I found a small catalog and installation instructions for a 1967 Delta Products, Grand Junction CO, Delta 10 and MARK10 "ingition enhancer". The MK10 decal was never put on.

The instructions show it connected to the ignition coil. It is supposed to boost the spark voltage.

I need to check the ignition wiring to see if I still have it on my car.

Does anyone know anything about the Delta MK10 they can share with me? What does it look like?

Thanks,

Ron D
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Old 07-10-2002, 06:17 AM
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Hi Ron,

I'm going from memory. Back in the 1960s the basic ignition system was a battery, points (and condener), coil, and spark plug. It was a known problem that the points and plugs would have to be changed periodically because they would wear out (points became pitted and corroded and spark plugs stop sparking). Thus the 12,000 mile tune-up. The auto engineers (especially the ones involved in racing cars) knew this basic ignition had a weak link especially in the points. CD ignition (capacitance discharge) systems was designed to strengthen this weak link. Instead of having the 12 volts arc across the points, the points were now used to act only as a switch with very little voltage (no arcing or burning) and have the 12 volts go to a box that contained a capacitor and a power transistor to send a really big charge to the primary side (coil) and then have an even bigger charge come out of the secondary side and onto the spark plug (with a bigger gap). The Delta and Mark 10 units were early versions of today's modern electronic ignition systems. The Delta and Mark 10 were metal boxes with wires coming out of them, one surface of the box was a heat sink and a power transistor sat in the middle of it. Most of them were after market units sold by places like J.C. Whitney, Pep Boys, etc. There was a kit version sold by Allied Electronics for those that like to DIYs. Concept was to save the wear and tear on the points but have a big charge go through the coil and spark plugs.

Jones Low
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Old 07-11-2002, 01:47 PM
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Jones:
Thanks for the history. My guess is that it was a dealer option that the original owner never went for. There is no such box on my car. Could have been removed however but can't see any mounting holes.

Also have the Blaupunkt Radio (still have it) installation/instruction papers and the Hirshman antenna instructions along with the little key to pull it up out of it's well. The original Porsche Service history book and stamped service coupons up to 1979 by the FL Porsche Dealers. Strange but also a Becker radio manual and the original Owners Manual. Not bad!

I recently added a Pertronix pointless ignition to my Bosh 050 and love it.

Thanks again.

Ron D
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Old 07-11-2002, 03:36 PM
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Your 69 might have had the CD unit installed at one time but may have been removed by a PO. One of the selling points of these ignition units was they could be removed easily and the ignition could be returned to the stock setup and then installed the CD ignition in another car. I think electronic ignition didn't become standard on cars until the late 70s.

I've installed a Crane Hi-6 in my 69-912 and its been a good upgrade. The engine starts easier and the idle and hi rpm range has been smooth. I've just installed the 050 and will eventually install the Pertronix in it. Many on this board have reported good results. That's one of the nice things about this community, we can share both our good and bad experiences. I learn something new every day.

I too still have the Blaupunkt AM/FM/SW radio (not in car) and the little key that pops up the antenna.

Jones Low
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Old 07-11-2002, 04:02 PM
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Jones,

Is the Crane Hi-6 a CD ignition system? I have read that the CD type is best when used with a Bosch Blue Coil.

Any info on where you got it?

Craig
69-912
Old 07-14-2002, 07:12 AM
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Sorry, I think the Hi-6 is no longer available, it was a unit that my son had left over from his days of souping up his Honda. I just borrowed it to see if there would be any improvement on the 912 and knowing that I could install and restore easily. I believe it is a CD unit and Crane currently has a newer model in their line up. I've been using a generic 12 volt coil but I do have a new Bosch blue coil ready to install. I'll update later about the blue coil after I've installed it. As I've remarked before, the electronic ignition was a good upgrade for my 912.

Jones Low
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Old 07-14-2002, 01:27 PM
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The Delta Mk 10, and the Mk 10 B and C are electronic after market ignitions - they are great for older cars because they prolong points and plug life - I use them on all my older cars (I keep a few lying around for spares too) - simple circuit - if you are curious, browse to my web page, Noble Associates and click on "articles I wrote" and look for the one on building your own electronic ignition - the schematic there is very close to the Delta, except I use NPN drive transistors and they used Germanium PNP.
Old 04-03-2011, 01:01 PM
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Here's a photo of both a Mark 10 , and a Mark 10B (has the on / off switch) :







Old 04-06-2011, 11:05 PM
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Mark 10B

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Old 04-09-2011, 09:40 AM
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DELTA Mark 10B CDI

Hi!
My name is George - deputy head (high-school) retired, Danish.

One of my cars is a Saab 96 3 cylinder two-stroke, registered in September 1964, but a 1965 model/long-nose.

I recently found an almost new CDI, a Delta Mk 10B, and when I was googling, I came upon Pelican Parts, and I must say, that I am very happy having found this site.

There are some old postings on the Delta, and I got a lot of useful information! Now I have mounted the CDI in my old Saab. Of cause it was an exiting moment when I turned the key. The engine started as usual. Maybe the sound was a little different. Then I took the car out of the garage in order to give the Delta a proper test. Wauw! Because of that small box I all of a sudden had an even better performance than before. The car is faster, the engine runs more smooth, the sound is better- just great.

It would be great if some of you "Pelicans" with Delta experiences would write a couple of Words about their Deltas, and maybe tell if there is something about the Delta I must be aware of.

All the best two-stroke greetings from Denmark ,
George
Old 04-11-2013, 07:46 AM
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912 w Delta Mk 10 B

Had one on my 912 for many years, hopefully you have the factory wiring diagram. I followed the diagram and made up a small circuit board so the electronic tach would operate normally. I was told later that for the Porsche tach, I could have switched the signal feed wire to another connector tab on the back of the tach and skipped the circuit board, but without documentation wasn't inclined to try that.

When you turn the ignition on, you'll hear a high-frequency sound when the unit is working properly. Mine always kept the plugs from loading up/ fouling when the engine was cold. A minimal current goes through the distributor points, resulting in minimal pitting.

The Mark 10B units do eventually fail, but can be rebuilt. If it fails, pushing the button on the Mk 10 B will turn it off, and switch the traditional ignition wiring setup back on with the original amount of current going through the points. However, it's VERY important to disconnect the electronic tach, to prevent damage to the tach until the Mark 10B is repaired and switched back on.
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Last edited by Rick Becker; 04-12-2013 at 10:06 AM..
Old 04-12-2013, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Becker View Post
When you turn the ignition on, you'll hear a high-frequency sound when the unit is working properly.
Hi Rick!
Thanks a lot for your reply. To me it is of course very interesting to hear about experiences with the Deltas.

When I got my Mark 10B I also got all the original documents including wiring diagrams , so I had read about the high-frequency sound, but unfortunately I am not able to hear these sounds because of many years in our army/army reserve. But my dear wife throughout the last 43 years has promised to lend me her ears tomorrow.

Today I again took the two-stroke for a short trip just for (Delta) fun. It is amazing what this small box has done to my car.

Should there among you "Pelicans" be someone having a Delta Mark 10 or a Delta Mark 10B lying about, collecting dust, donīt hesitate contacting me. I would be a happy buyer, because I am sure that a number of members of the Danish Saab 96 Two-Stroke Club very much would like to have a box after having read my story on our home-page.

A nice week-end to you over there,

George, DK

Old 04-12-2013, 08:58 AM
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Hi George,
I posted the picture of the 10B above.
It's sitting in my tool box drawer at the moment.
I used to have one in my '68 1600 BMW.
My experience was that it 1) cut down on the need to change points (they don't burn with the 10B as the voltage is changed to 400v but only micro-amps cross the points), 2) kept the plugs looking like new 3) just generally made the car's ignition system a set it and forget it type of thing.
I think at one time I actually went three years without so much as even pulling a spark plug or a distributor cap! When I did, I found the copper band that ran the current from the lug on the distributor body to the points was about to break from corrosion.
I never did get around to putting the 10B on my 912 as it ended up having Pertronix ignition module installed in it.
Nice looking SAAB you have there.
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Old 04-17-2013, 03:32 PM
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Could use a little help from my friends

Hi!
The Delta Mark 10B is still running perfectly in my old two-stroke Saab.
However, I have run into a problem trying to mount a tachometer. This tachometer is a modern one which can be set to 2,3,4,6 and 8 cylinders. As my Saab is two-stroke, I have set the tach to 6 cylinders as usual!

Normally I would take the coil signal from minus on the coil, but according to the booklet "Delta Mark Ten Series - Tachometer Installation - I have taken the signal from the plus on the Delta.

The tachometer is working, but the values are far too high, it shows approx almost the double of the real RPM.

What can I do in order to get the values right? - Please have in mind that I was a civil servant (deputy headmaster) until my retirement. I have very little knowledge of electronics. First now in my "second life"I found the hobby of my life, vintage cars. So, if you (hopefully) have some suggestions for solving my problem, please make them for "dummies"

Thanks a lot!

Best greetings from Denmark ,

George
Old 05-05-2013, 11:40 AM
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Hej George, it is fantastic that you have the Delta Mark Ten working. That Capacitive Discharge ignition should help overcome spark-plug fouling problems in that 2-stroke.

So, you say it's a 3-cylinder, 2-stroke engine. In other words, it has twice the spark rate that a 3-cylinder 4-stroke engine would give. In fact, your engine has the same spark rate as a 6-cylinder 4-stroke engine. So, you should be able to select the 6-cylinder setting on that tachometer and achieve the correct readings.

Hopefully this will help you! -Bob
Old 05-07-2013, 03:19 PM
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Hej Bob!
Unfortunately it does not help. I have selected the 6-cylinder setting, and the readings are far too high. I just canīt imagine why.

How comes that you know the Danish Word for "hi" is "hej"??

All the best,
George, DK
Old 05-08-2013, 02:46 AM
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Hej, hi, George and Bob,

Looking at your problem I came to the following possible cause for your faulty tacho reading. The CDI unit is based on an oscillator generating the charge voltage/current for the capacitor. It could be that there is a ripple voltage on the terminal for the tacho (coil + terminal), which triggers the tacho input on top of the spark triggering.

A simple capacitor/resistor network and a diode could perhaps solve the problem. George, Do you have access to basic electronic components? Of course the 6 cilinder preset is correct.

Otto
Old 05-08-2013, 12:43 PM
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Hi Otto,
I am most grateful for all help from members of this forum, just great!
Otto, I understand your description of the problem and I am almost sure, that you are right.

What I do not understand, however, is how to install the capacitor/resistor network and the diode. - I know where I can get basic electronic components, so maybe I can "persuade" you to tell, which components I will need, and how I must put them together/connect them to the existing components in the car.
All the best,
George, DK
Old 05-09-2013, 12:50 AM
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Hi George,

You don't need to persuade me to help. I wouldn't be here on the board f I would need that.

I was just rereading the previous posts and realized that the MK10 uses the original points to trigger the electronics. That triggered the following simple question: why don't you use the points to trigger the tacho? I guess the original setup, without the MK10, was also triggering the tacho from the points.

An additional capacitor of something like 47 nF across the points to suppress any ripple on the input. The load of the tacho will have no influence on the functionality of the MK10.
Just tell me if I'm completely wrong. I will reset my brain cells and reload for an R/C-network at the output to the coil annex tacho.

BTW: Apart from the capacitor at the input, I think it might be good to put also som decoupling capacitors at the other terminals of the MK10. So from the +-terminal to ground and the coil terminals to ground. 4.7 to10 nF (nano-farad) will do. It can prevent the circuit from oscillation on a wrong frequency, caused by (ground) loops. These oscillations could also result in a wrong tacho reading. If you would have access to an oscilloscope and knowing how to work with it, you could see what you are doing.

Otto

Last edited by Otto H. Wegkamp; 05-10-2013 at 11:26 AM..
Old 05-10-2013, 10:58 AM
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Hi Otto,
thanks again!
I prefer to keep the Mark 10B setup and somehow get it to work.
A good friend of mine knows a lot about electronics - he actually worked with those things until he retired. I am sure he understands, what you are talking about, and that I can count on his help.
Have a nice w-e!
George
Old 05-10-2013, 02:13 PM
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