Let’s start tracking 914-6 conversion values.

[fetus]

Originally Posted by mb911

I can tell you that there is a changing market. Take for example that when I sold my 914-6 conversion 18 years ago I sold it for 11k .. The car recently sold on BAT for 29k with very little changed since I owned it. The other thing to note is that the aftermarket part for these conversions is growing. Since I have started making heat exchangers for the 914-6 we have delivered about 100 sets and the same with engine sheetmetal.. These parts are not cheap but rather more expensive then similar parts in the 911 world..


I personally think the former 911 ownership has migrated to 914s because of the cost of entry and still maintaining that 911 sound but even better handling.
.


I think we have 4-5 years before 914s in general almost are priced out of the average owners grasp. I also note that every single week I ship 914-6 parts out mostly for conversions and finally we can look at these cars as investments..

I agree.. stock 4 bangers will become rare, due to all the six conversions, LS or Subi.
People will look at the cost of building one and just buy one already done.

[larrym]

maybe relevant to this discussion

Six conversion value for insurance?
914World.com - The largest online 914 community!

Hagerty Articles 2016
"Mecum offered a 914 upgraded to 2.2-liter six-cylinder power with 40mm Weber carburetors, Recaro seats, fender flares, Momo steering wheel and five-lug Fuchs alloy wheels at Houston in April. The trouble was that it wasn’t what it wanted to be – a 914/6. The bidders quit at $39,000, a telling contrast not only between real and make-believe 914/6s, but also the perils of spending vast amounts of money to make a 914 into a 914/6."

[fetus]

Curious insurance values / replacement cost is different than what your willing to pay for a conversion. I bought my 914 back in 2010 for $21k and it was steel flaired with a 3.2. I spent another $10k for 915 gear box and then another $15k for body work and paint job. No way, would I spend $45k for my car, but $10k at a time is easier to do. If I had the money, a well sorted 3.6 conversion for $40k would be more attractive.. I have yet to see a conversion sell for what they have in it. You can buy a much better car for over $40k. Cayman, etc...

[larrym]

Originally Posted by fetus

Curious insurance values / replacement cost is different than what your willing to pay for a conversion. ... No way, would I spend $45k for my car, but $10k at a time is easier to do.

a'yup - one VISA payment at a time - "... an E-ticket at Disneyland"

i have no comprehension of the rustoration crowd building tribute GT's on bodies that we happily junked yrs back

*****
.... a different perspective from March CarCraft op-ed: "the core of the classic car audience has been spoiled by the new car experience. Today’s auction block results prove most buyers will pay much more for a nicely resto-modded (...xxxx etc.) than a concourse correct relic sitting on skinny white walls." (~Johnny Hunkins)

******

[larrym]

fascinating discussion - i think this started as a thread about market value of conversions

- apparently agreed value insurance has little relationship to that

another quote - current issue of Classic Motorsports:
"remember what Hagerty's Jonathan Klinger told us a little while ago: "Car collectors continue to become more discerning, paying eye-watering amounts for very specific examples and refusing to even offer a bid for similar but lesser models"

as a market value comparison - i am looking at an $85K cash offer on my GT right now (currently best described as a resto-mod, albeit with rarefied roots & documentation)

- last year hagerty quoted $1800 to insure it for $100K - long way from the quotes i see above

https://pbase.com/emoze/914_6_gt&page=2

[mb911]

Originally Posted by larrym

a'yup - one VISA payment at a time - "... an E-ticket at Disneyland"

i have no comprehension of the rustoration crowd building tribute GT's on bodies that we happily junked yrs back

*****
.... a different perspective from March CarCraft op-ed: "the core of the classic car audience has been spoiled by the new car experience. Today’s auction block results prove most buyers will pay much more for a nicely resto-modded (...xxxx etc.) than a concourse correct relic sitting on skinny white walls." (~Johnny Hunkins)

******

The Rusteration crowd does it because we can.. It's the journey for me.. It also means that the particular rust bucket was destined for the junk yard and you saved it. Sense of accomplishment..

[fetus]

Originally Posted by larrym

fascinating discussion - i think this started as a thread about market value of conversions

- apparently agreed value insurance has little relationship to that

another quote - current issue of Classic Motorsports:
"remember what Hagerty's Jonathan Klinger told us a little while ago: "Car collectors continue to become more discerning, paying eye-watering amounts for very specific examples and refusing to even offer a bid for similar but lesser models"


i am looking at an $85K cash offer on my GT right now (currently best described as a resto-mod, albeit with rarefied roots & documentation)

& thinking hard on it


- last year hagerty quoted $1800 to insure it for $100K - long way from the quotes i see above

https://pbase.com/emoze/914_6_gt&page=2

Is your $85k GT a real six or conversion?
I am also seeing classic fords and Chevys with modern crate motors. Those makes sense, but I am not a fan of losing the whole front trunk to run a water cooled engine.

[larrym]

Originally Posted by fetus

is your $85k gt a real six or conversion?

9140430919

[larrym]

i think the preponderance of opinion here (but not consensus) is that nobody is gonna "make money" on a conversion car,

real question is "how much will i lose?" vs cost to build

it's a hobby - but hope springs eternal

i have long believed that the only guys making money on restos or restomods are the body shops, engine builders AND parts vendors

as said above - one can buy a whole lot of other modern equivalent-performance cars for the money or half the money

fwiw - i've been tracking conversion vs "real-six" sales for a long time - maybe i'll find time to make a list for this thread

Larry Lee has been tracking real-sixes forever almost

[David McLaughlin]

To keep this thread on the top page...

I asked this question on Facebook recently. The various answers are interesting. My car is a restoration candidate, I don’t pretend otherwise. What I think makes my car somewhat unique in the conversion world is that it was built using a crashed factory six. So, I have all factory parts sans VIN. While that means I’ll never get big money for it, it also means I didn’t pay big money for a running, driving, six. It also means I can drive it where I want with less worry about devaluing a higher dollar collectible.

[theer]

+1 to Ben's (mb911) and David's comments. If you're building a conversion on a 914-4 VIN to make money, or even just try not to go under water relative to final value, you're going to drive yourself crazy.

We accept that "loss" every time we buy a new car, why would we think otherwise for a one-off custom build on a base car that's worth maybe $15k-$20k (if that) in stock driver-quality form.

Enjoy the project, enjoy the journey, enjoy the final product. Sounds like money well spent to me! If you want to skip to the end and just buy a finished one - that's fine too.

In my case, I jumped into an unfinished WRX conversion which is now ready for pick up next week. I have no illusions that I'd be able to sell it even for what I've got into it (much less the total money spent by the first owner), but I can't wait to pick it up & drive the snot out of it.

Rant over.. and now back to our regularly scheduled program.

[mepstein]

Originally Posted by larrym

9140430919

Factory built special. I've always felt you've valued it too low.

[larrym]

Originally Posted by mepstein

Factory built special. I've always felt you've valued it too low.

perhaps

- only one potential buyer has come offering a handful of cash in the last 3 yrs even tho it's availability has been no secret

- let's say it might get $100K at "well advertised auction" as the roadshow appraisers always say

(my friends who've experienced that venue say it's a crapshoot - maybe it will sell, or maybe not & in any case ya spent much cash to have it roll on the auction stage)

subtract the cost of auction prep & positioning, subtract the seller fees & buyer fees, etc etc

net cash in bank = about $85K - vs keeping it for it's "intrinsic value" as one of my 914 friends says

if i put it up FS on BaT or similar, the first thing that would happen is everyone on this site & World would start denigrating it, and debating "what's it worth?" (i have no stomach for that . . . )

- of course none of said commentariat would ever actually bid on it, cuz ya know, "the dog ate my cash stash last week & my kid needs braces"

fwiw Jurgen Rott of 2shores.com knows the car & the euro & collector market & says "$85K net is not bad" - i value his market knowledge

so i'm waiting to see if the net cash offer comes thru or if it's just another "big talk flipper" trying to find a bigger money euro buyer before he finalizes the deal

if no sale, it'll be at the SVR Concours June 9 & probably at the GGR Mammoth drive June 14

[Matt Monson]

I finally managed to get mine home this past weekend.



It's got a Superec 2.8 built on a 75 7R case and a Wevo 916 conversion with LSD. It's built on an original 1970 470 chassis for vintage rules purposes.

[roblav]

Cool. Congrats. I'm in the middle of building one now... 930/02 engine.

[Craig_D]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

I finally managed to get mine home this past weekend.

It's got a Superec 2.8 built on a 75 7R case and a Wevo 916 conversion with LSD. It's built on an original 1970 470 chassis for vintage rules purposes.

Sweet, Matt! Do you know if that's an Al Johnson built car?

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by Craig_D

Sweet, Matt! Do you know if that's an Al Johnson built car?

It’s not. Some place called Maverick Autosports in the Twin Cities area I believe. They built two identical cars, one for father and one for son. I think this is dad’s Car. I don’t have a ton of details beyond stories and a PCA logbook.

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

$19.5K for a narrow-body conversion with four-lug wheels and an RS-spec engine.

Thought about bidding on that one myself, it looked like fun...

[roblav]

That car was for sale on 914World for a while. I corresponded with the seller and almost bought it. Seems Nathanbs bought it.

[GregAmy]

I would have bid on it if it was a street car. Narrow body, 4-bolt, 2.7 pushes my buttons.

Still kicking myself for missing out on the original post.

Edit: correction to data