3.0 sc in a 914

[scg]

Build sheet is in US funds.

YouDaMAN!

[jkeyzer]

That 78 3.0 for $2500 was a steal. Double that for a more typical price on a 3.0 or more for a 3.2...

[sammyg2]

It's been said many times here, the cheapest conversion is one someone already converted. You can find a nice one that isn't butchered for less than you can do it yourself. That's also a good point to remember when it comes time to sell a conversion you did, you won't get your money out of it.

[gengs]

Thanks for all the above wisdom. Given the above I think the rebuild route is going to be best cost wise and sale wise

Only at some point in the very distant future as I don't want to be a victim of "Regretable sale due to house move and grief from wife" syndrome!

Rather than a 119 extra HP from the SC I think I will have to settle for an extra 5 from the euro pistons.

As for grin factor, I get enough out of the 914 as it is, as long as people here don't confuse it as a Triumph. (There are only about 200 914s in England)

Cheers

[Porschekid962]

lets say i had carbs on a 3.2 and a 3.0, would the 3.2 still be easier to install?

[lapuwali]

If you put on carbs, then there's no difference in installing a 3.0 or a 3.2. The 3.0 difficulties are strictly down to the enormous size of the CIS induction plumbing.

You don't have to cut the trunk to fit one, but you will have to remove the trunk springs and the rain tray, and move the engine cover latch. Even then, the engine cover will rest on the CIS snorkle with the lowest mount available.

On the $10K price: the $2500 SC longblock was cheap, as were the $750 40IDA3 carbs. Good deals on those, and it does show what can be done with some wheeling and dealing. Typical prices on these parts alone, however, are often much higher (2-3x higher).

On rebuilding the /4: it's quite possible to build up a /4 to a 2.3L engine using off the shelf quality parts, for about $4-7K (varies depending on how much you do yourself). Said engine will make anywhere from 140-180hp, depending on the exact state of tune you choose. The US model 911SC only made 180hp, so you can equal the power (with much less torque). Given the weight difference, I'd expect a 140hp 914/4 to at least equal a 911SC in straight-line performance, and positively slaughter it in road-course performance (600-800lbs lighter).

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

Remember that an SC motor in a 914 will have headers and carbs, which are good for more than 20 HP when used together. (Check Anderson's book...) The 914-6 heat exchangers are very nearly headers themselves, so they will likely give you almost the same improvement. So you're up to 200+ HP right there, with half-million-mile reliability.

A 914 with an SC motor (and upgraded brakes, etc.) will probably be around 200 lbs heavier than a -4, at a guess. Figure 160 HP for the 2270 for a middle-of-the-road buildup on that.

I think the SC still pulls away, but not by a whole lot. It will be more expensive, though.

--DD

[Porschekid962]

what kind of fun would you expect from a 3.4 built from a 3.2 with carbs, hotter cams and around 9.8:1 cr stuck in a stripped down 914?

and carbs

[lapuwali]

Adding more power still starts to get into serious money to handle that power. More rear tire on the road, meaning flares. More gearbox required, so 915/930 conversion. Etc. You quickly get into serious money, and the returns are rapidly diminishing. Going from 80hp to 180hp adds way more fun than going from 180 to 300. You'll also find that staying all Porsche gets REALLY expensive for high power. Going with a Subaru turbo or a small-block will get silly power for a lot less money.

Dave, I meant a 911SC (2800lbs or so) against a 2270 powered 914, not a 914 3.0 v. a 2270 914. No question an SC powered 914 would be quicker than a 2270 powered 914, but it would be more expensive to make, more of a hassle to maintain (engine drop to do the valves, for example), and much louder.

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

Engine drop to do the valves?? Only to people who think you have to remove the exhaust to adjust the valves on a four-cylinder 914...

The 911 ones stay in adjustment longer than the 914-4 ones, which is nice. The spec'ed adjustment interval is significantly longer, as I recall.

I think a carb'ed 3.0 Six would not be much louder than a carb'ed 2270 with the Tangerine headers, given similar final mufflers. (E.g., Phase 9 on both cars.)

Definitely more expensive to build. But if you don't break a head stud or lose a chain tensioner, the SC engine seems to be good for a half-million miles... As opposed to 50K-75K on the Type IV before you "should" pull the heads--or ~100K before you split the bottom end again.

The rebuild on the Six will be a heckuva lot more than that on the Four. The Six will be heavier than the Four. The Six will be much less of a bolt-in affair than the Four...

Both have their pluses and minuses.

--DD

[lapuwali]

On my 914/6 (a 2.4 911T w/ CIS engine in a '73 2.0 chassis), you pretty much had to at least lower the engine to get at the exhaust valves. The valve cover wouldn't come off otherwise. Doing the intake valves was just possible, but extremely awkward. Perhaps other people have come up with other ways around this, but short of removing the studs holding on the exhaust valve covers, it was not possible to do the valves on my car with the engine in place.

The noise of the 911 engine isn't the exhaust, but the cooling fan. At 3000rpm, you couldn't hold a conversation in the car without shouting. The exhaust on mine (Bursch on 914/6 HEs), wasn't loud at all.

Sixes sound great, and it's a nice engine. However, unless you're really hung-up on staying air-cooled, there are much cheaper ways of getting the level of power AND reliability you can't readily get out of the Four.

[morgan_harwell]

>Perhaps other people have come up with other ways around this

On my 914/6 (a 2.4 911T w/ CIS engine in a '73 1.7 chassis), I pretty much have to raise the engine about a 1/4" to get the Turbo valve covers off to get at the ehaust valves. The intake valves are easy to axcess. Only odd thing I have to do is attach a mirror to the firewall to see the timing marks on the crank pulley.

--Moe--

[iamchappy]

With my 3.0 cis engined 914 I have no problem getting to all the valves for adjustment. I dont have turbo valve covers, but I do use the silicone gaskets, I have no oil leaking problems. My car has the stock 914 6 mount.
I felt the 3.0 was lacking in the type of performance I was wishing for, I looked at a lot of options for performance gains and settled on turbochargering because it was the least expensive and easiest way of achieving the performance I was looking for. I couldn't be happier with the results.

[Porschekid962]

put the three litre in the car and give the 914 some proper power. i know of someone who is building a twin plugged and crank fired 3.0 for a 914 and is going to use a built up 901 trans. go for it!!

[ss6]

Don't need to do any latch mods to get a 3.2 in. I removed the rain tray and the lid crossmember to allow me to keep the engine mounted heater blower, but wouldn't bother with it if I had it to do again.