3.0 sc in a 914

[gengs]

After discussing my engine rebuild for my 2.0 with someone from a costing and time point of view, it was suggested that instead of investing time and money on 914 rebuild, that for the same kind of money I could get a 911 3.0sc engine instead.

So that being said, I have looked around the bbs without much luck, can anyone tell me what needs to be done- I am presuming that the gearbox can be retained in the 914- so that I can do a cost analysis.

I appreciate that one will be brand new but the other one will have twice as much HP

Cheers

[red-beard]

Go to the main pelican board and look under the tech articles. There is a rather lengthy discussion on the merits of the 914/6 conversion and the costs.

James

[Eric Fry]

There are many things to consider as far as cost goes. The trans can be kept, you will need to find an early 911 (pre '72) flywheel to match the 901 trans. An oil tank, oil lines and 914-6 eng. oil cooler. Thought should be given to an external cooler also. A means to mount the engine. If you run the injection you will have some clearance issues, if carbs then you will need the six cable and linkage. There are a bunch of holes to drill, I am lucky, I have a factory six to get all the placements correct. Once you have the parts all becomes clear. One thing most people forget about in doing such a conversion is brakes. One thing great about this conversion is that so many have been done there is a vast amount of info out there and the parts are all available from factory and/or aftermarket.

[JWest]

Eric, that is not always correct on the flywheel.

First, the flywheel on 911s changed in '70. The 901 trans became the 911 trans and has a different clutch mechanism on the transmission, although the rest of the trans is the standard 901.

Second, the crankshaft was changed in 1978 with the introduction of the 3.0 SC engine - so the '69 and earlier 911 flywheel does not fit that engine.

What you describe ('69 and earlier 911 flywheel) will in fact work to install any 911 engine up to 1977 (2.0, 2.2, 2.4, 2.7, and the early 3.0 Carerra) into a 914.

[Eric Fry]

I stand corrected. I had forgoten about the push pull thing. Thanks for the correction.

[jabb]

If you are comparing a 2.0 rebuild with the cost of a 3.0 conversion I can not see how you would even come close to the cost of doing a 3.0 conversion. To do a 3.0 conversion correctly it will cost you much more than rebuilding a 4cyl 2.0..... Do a search on conversion there are many topics on this some go into detail of costs but most are afraid to look back after it is done to add up the total cost. I know because I am one of those that does not want to know what it costs, but I will tell you this it was a lot but the first time you drive it and many times after that you will always have that same grin from ear to ear

[gengs]

Jabb I think you are are right, once I have got all the costs together for each option the decision should be easier. Or more difficult because though there is much to said of the virtues on a as good as new rebuilt engine I also agree with the grin factor.

It does sound like I'll have to hide all bits of paper and maths involved from the wife regardless of which direction I take.

[si2t3m]

Here goes mine... Please don't give the URL to my wife!!!


Oil System
Misc. Fittings 200,00 $
Oil Breater System 52,00 $
Oil cooler 125,00 $
Oil Filler Neck - Dipstick (modified) 60,00 $
Oil Lines 215,00 $
Oil tank 450,00 $

Subtotal 1 102,00 $

Engine
78 3.0 long block 2 500,00 $
clutch/flywheel 500,00 $
Engine Sheet Metal 250,00 $
Engine Mount for 6 450,00 $
911 Mounts & hardware 72,00 $

Accelerator Cable for new linkage 45,00 $
Accelerator Linkage Assy 200,00 $

Alternator with internal regulator 325,00 $
Electrical Adaptor (14 pin male - 928) 18,00 $
Combo Guage 150,00 $
Tach 60,00 $

Headers/Heater Boxes 650,00 $
Exhaust System-Muffler 75,00 $

Webers - 40 IDA 750,00 $
Weber rebuild kit & 3.0L setup 225,00 $
K&N watershields and filters 100,00 $
Weber Throttle Linkage Assy 200,00 $
Fuel Pressure Regulator 25,00 $
Fuel pump (for Webers) 40,00 $

Straightend Shift Rod & bushings 100,00 $

MSD Ignition and coil 160,00 $
Magecor Wires 140,00 $

Subtotal 7 035,00 $

Front suspension
77 911 front suspension & swaybar 450,00 $
Front bushings 50,00 $

Subtotal 500,00 $

Rear suspension
180lb Springs 90,00 $
5-bolt re-drilled hubs 275,00 $
Koni sport rear shocks 225,00 $
Wheel Bearings 30,00 $

Subtotal 620,00 $

Brakes
19mm M/C 100,00 $
T-Fitting 15,00 $

Subtotal 115,00 $

Body/Chassis
Front Valance 150,00 $
Wheels (14x5.5 Fuchs) 250,00 $
Toyo Proxess Ra1 205/55/14 500,00 $
Wheels (16x6 Fuchs) 300,00 $


Subtotal 1 200,00 $


Total 10 572,00 $

[David McLaughlin]

I believe that a /6 conversion can be done for the price of a 'good' 2.0 rebuild. Ebay is full of conversions like this. I wouldn't be caught dead in one of them though. I bought my /6 conversion 'completed' for $5k. After a quick estimate of costs, I added another $6k to correct some things and make some areas better.

[jc9]

gengs, there is a nice article in european car magazine jan 2000 volume 31 that discusses the 6 conversion done by patrick motorsports in phoenix az. on page 60 they quote "for about 13k jim can place this 270 hp mill within the bay of your 914." check it out or try www.patrickmotorsports.com most likely prices will be higher now. if i had the money i would have them one for me but remember that you will need to improve chassis, suspension, brakes and you will need very expensive tires that probably wont last 20,000 miles. i am feeling better about my stock 2.0 now. good luck jc

[Jim Smolka]

Also, installing a 3.0 CIS motor is not easy to install in a 914 w/o having to cut the trunk. At a minimum, one must move the engine latch to the other side. A 3.2 is an easier conversion. Of course there is the 3.6 option. (I have a 3.6 motor FS )

[David McLaughlin]

hey Jim, do you take payments?

[Jim Smolka]

Sure, I'll take payments. Just leave your very nice 914-6 as collateral

[Eric Fry]

Jim, Tell me about your 3.6 for sale.

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

The cheapest half-decent Six conversion I know of was done forr $5000. This included a whole lot of wheeling and dealing, trading this for that, and zero cost for labor.

The result was a 914-6 with a very tired (read: smokey and weak) 110 HP 2.0 911T motor, tranny in so-so shape, and stock 914-4 brakes and four-bolt wheels. The engine that went in was the most simple and straightforward of the possible swaps.

You can buy an SC motor for what it costs to rebuild a 2.0 914 motor. You'll even have change left over, most likely. But you won't even get the engine mounted in the car by the time you've hit the 914 motor's rebuild cost.

IMHO.

--DD

[74gokart]

Jim,
What are the differences between the 3.0 and 3.2 that make the 3.2 an easier conversion? Do you have photos of the process or the changes necessary to fit the new engine?
TIA

[Jim Smolka]

Eric,

I have a 3.6 motor from a '90 C4 with 46K miles. Nice motor and is still in the car and 911 can be driven around the block. Comes with Tach, FI, FI wiring, FI Brain, Exhaust, Fuel Pump.

74 Gokart,

The main difference is the 3.2 does not have the CIS Air box and CIS Air Boot. It is a real pain to make the CIS stuff fit. May require modification of the small fuel lines that run the injectors and WUR etc. Also, some vacuum lines are a problem on the 3.0

The 3.2, you simply install a Cone filter and mount the air flapper box in a slightly different position and everything fits. (Assuming you have moved the engine latch assy to the other side).

[scg]

Total 10 572,00 $

Dang! If that $cdn, you got off *real* easy!

...even if it's $us, you did well. If your wife sees it and complains, I'll send you my list so she can feel better...

...but only if you promise not to show it to *my* wife.

[LarryP]

US$10,572? Please. I spent that much fixing my car and it came with the six.

[si2t3m]

Build sheet is in US funds.

What the build sheet doesn't show is all the parts bought and sold to finance the project. I can knock off 3700 from that price.

Marc-André