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I wonder if this V-8 would fit in a teener ...



DOHC all-aluminum 90-degree 4.2 litre V8 with 5 valves per cylinder, variable valve timing and 2-stage intake manifold

Displacement: 4.2 litres (4163 cc)
Bore: 84.5 mm
Stroke: 92.8 mm
Compression ratio: 11.0:1
Horsepower: 340 @ 7000 rpm
Torque: 302 lb/ft @ 3500 rpm
Old 04-14-2004, 09:52 PM
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It's a pretty short engine block (got one sitting in the A8 in the driveway as my daily driver) and it's in the newer A6's and A8's. I think it'd work if the vertical dimensions would fit. All I know is when I put my foot into it, it goes!
Old 04-15-2004, 05:19 AM
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Engine height does not look like a problem. The main concern with v8 conversions is length of engine. Need to pay attention to how accessories mount to front of engine (water pump, distributors etc.), these are what usually cause interferance.

If you can provide length of engine from back of block to obtect at furthest forward location of engine, I'll do some measuring and give you some idea of what may or may not cause problems if you are serious about doing this conversion.

Pics of the forward portion of engine (crankshaft area) would be helpful.
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Old 04-15-2004, 07:17 AM
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The following should be useful.

Andy,

As you requested: (from my pre '86 chevy 350 cu. in.)

-CL of crank to intake manifold mounting flange = 10 1/4"

-CL of crank to carb flange on intake (Edel. Perf) = 14"

-CL of crank to top of air filter (14" Moroso) = 19 5/8" (note: this one is critical to get the engine lid to close even with the rain guard and brace removed. You have about 1/2 to 3/4" clearance with this selection of parts.

-Cooling water inlet flanges on front of block to rear of block = 21 11/16"

-Front of harmonic balancer to rear of block = 24 3/16" (Note: this is with Renegade's harmonic balancer using their serpentine belt, no other pulleys attach forward of HB........this is the most protruding piece on front of engine). I'm not sure of if the balancer dimension is different if not fitting the car with a/c.

Note: rear of block means just that.......no adapter plate or other piece of equipment installed.

John


----- Original Message -----
From: andyszy4054
To: pors-chev@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 3:38 PM
Subject: [PORS-CHEV] Re: 914 Ford V8


John,

Would you be so kind as to post the same dimensions that Pat did?
Also, some vertical measurement would be very helpful, such as crank
c/l to intake manifold mounting surface, and crank c/l to top of air
cleaner. I made a table for all the dimesions, but I can't figure out
how to make it as an attachment. Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Andy

--- In pors-chev@yahoogroups.com, "John Thomas"
wrote:
> I've got my chevy 350 which fits a 914 out for maintenance if
anyone needs measurements. I'd like to see a 5.0 mustang engine
successfully installed in a 914. Had a '93 Saleen a while back and
loved the sound.
>
> My conversion kit is from Renegade and has the serpentine belt with
side mount water pump, alternator and a/c compressor all driven by
one belt.
>
> Engine is on stand right now being reassembled after replacing oil
pan and timing chain cover gaskets with harmonic balancer
installed.....the remaining forward accessories will be installed as
they are cleaned in the next few days. Measurements and or photos
would be easy to take right now.
>
> My schedule is to finish bolting on the remaining pieces to front
of engine in the next couple of days and hopefully install drivetrain
next weekend.
>
> I'll be glad to take measurements/photos for any of you looking to
stuff a 5.0 in a 914.
>
> John
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: carlene macgregor
> To: pors-chev@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 5:56 PM
> Subject: Re: [PORS-CHEV] Re: 914 Ford V8
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I've done some of these measurements on a Ford 5.0L. From the
back face of the block (the face that mates to the trans) it is 23"
to the water inlets on the front of the timing cover. From the same
point on the block to the front of the harmonic balancer it is 25-
3/4". To the front of the crank pulley it is 28". The distance from
the rear face of the block to the water inlets on the front of the
block is about 21". The timing cover is 2" thick. This particular
engine is a 1990 H.O. out of a mustang.
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Old 04-15-2004, 07:24 AM
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More info from yahoo board on engine clearances.


Phillip,

If you were sitting in car, a/c compressor is on passenger side. Center of a/c compressor is about 1" offset (right) from center of dimple.

Center of water pump (drivers side) is offset (right) about 3" from center of dimple.

Hope this made sense. Both accessories are offset to the right side of dimple. The water pump is just offset more.

John
----- Original Message -----
From: Phillip J. Haun
To: pors-chev@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2003 8:23 AM
Subject: Re: [PORS-CHEV] Re: 914 Ford V8


John:
There is a dimple in the lower part of the fire wall . How far away are the accessories from the dimple?
Thank You!!!!
Phillip J. Haun
Oak Harbor, Wa.

-------Original Message-------

From: pors-chev@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, August 17, 2003 12:57:14 AM
To: pors-chev@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PORS-CHEV] Re: 914 Ford V8

Phillip,

Attached is water pump pulley to lower bulkhead on drivers side. My other pics are kind of dark.......let me try another photo session tomorrow. If you have a particular angle your looking for, let me know.

John
----- Original Message -----
From: Phillip J. Haun
To: pors-chev@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2003 1:09 AM
Subject: Re: [PORS-CHEV] Re: 914 Ford V8


John:
Do you have any pictures of the other equipment on the front of the engine in relation to clearance to the fire wall?
Thank You!!!!!
Phillip J. Haun
Oak Harbor, Wa.

-------Original Message-------

From: pors-chev@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, August 16, 2003 9:00:21 PM
To: pors-chev@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PORS-CHEV] Re: 914 Ford V8

Drivetrain has been installed and I've attached a few pics to show the clearance between harmonic balancer and bulkhead (2-3/8") as well as center of thermostat housing to upper bulkhead (5"). This is pre '86 SBC in a '73 914 using Renegade Hybrids serpentine belt and harmonic balancer.

A previous post listed center of crankshaft to top of intake on a EFI 5.0L. This dimension appears to be the same for the SBC using carburetor. I'd check the total footprint of the Ford EFI intake and make sure there are no interference's in the rear bulk head (where the SBC distributor is located)..........this area is tight in a 914.

Now, somebody stuff a 5.0L in a 914! : )

John
----- Original Message -----
From: John Thomas
To: pors-chev@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2003 5:08 AM
Subject: Re: [PORS-CHEV] Re: 914 Ford V8


Darrin,

The SBC is being used as a reference. Since no one had a ford engine installed in a 914, my engine was being used to identify clerances.

John
----- Original Message -----
From: Manta Rallye
To: pors-chev@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2003 4:32 AM
Subject: Re: [PORS-CHEV] Re: 914 Ford V8


Did I miss something in this thread? Those pics look like a SBC not a SBF?!?

Darrin

At 04:30 PM 8/10/03 -0400, you wrote:

Mike,

Just so we are clear on what you want measured, I'll attach a couple of pics so there is no confusion.

The "plates" attached to block are different in length due to the number of accessories they support. If you need this measurement (total width of front assemble), give me a day or so when I have these reattached. These plates are just a little over 3/8" thick.

The harmonic balancer is the most forward piece. It sticks out 2-3/8" from the water inlet/outlet ports on front of block.

John
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Ticonchuk
To: pors-chev@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2003 11:56 AM
Subject: Re: [PORS-CHEV] Re: 914 Ford V8


How long are the renegade water plates that route water from the block? How far do they extend out from mounting face?
With all the kit parts installed what item is the farthest forward?
Mike T
----- Original Message -----
From: John Thomas
To: pors-chev@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2003 12:50 PM
Subject: Re: [PORS-CHEV] Re: 914 Ford V8
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Old 04-15-2004, 07:31 AM
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Can someone check the weight of the Audi V8. I seem to recall it is quite a bit heavier (somewhere around 580-600lbs) than an iron head Chevy.

Andy
Old 04-15-2004, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by John2kx
If you can provide length of engine from back of block to obtect at furthest forward location of engine, I'll do some measuring and give you some idea of what may or may not cause problems if you are serious about doing this conversion.
John,

Thanks for the offer but I'm really just pondering since I saw some footage of a V8 teener accelerating past some cars and you could hear and see the power. I'm actually going to start my 2056 build-up this Summer/Fall.
Old 04-15-2004, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by AJS
Can someone check the weight of the Audi V8. I seem to recall it is quite a bit heavier (somewhere around 580-600lbs) than an iron head Chevy.

Andy
I don't know if the all aluminum Audi V8 is heavier than an all iron Chevy motor but I would be very surprised if it is.
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Alfred,

I tried without success to find the info on the Audi. For a dramatic comparison, I have a side-by-side picture of a SBF 302 and the Ford modular 4.6 DOHC. The DOHC motor is huge, and weights in at a whopping 680lbs. Again going from memory, the Audi V8 falls into a similar weight league otherwise it would be a very nice motor. The all iron Chevy is 520 lbs, and the Ford crate alum head 302 is 425 lbs (less intake, dist, headers). The Gen III LS1 Chevy is listed at 390 lbs (though someone actually weighted one at 435lbs) complete with EFI, computer, harness, headers, water pump, etc. That would be a great motor for the 914.

Andy
Old 04-15-2004, 11:48 AM
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Yup. Many people slag off pushrod engines, but they're inherently more compact than SOHC or DOHC engines, esp. in vee form. The cam and the large loads involved to drive it are contained within the block, so the heads can be small, light things that only have to handle the much lighter rocker loads.

Weight will also be inherently lower vertically, for a better CG.
Old 04-15-2004, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by AJS
Alfred,

I tried without success to find the info on the Audi. For a dramatic comparison, I have a side-by-side picture of a SBF 302 and the Ford modular 4.6 DOHC. The DOHC motor is huge, and weights in at a whopping 680lbs. Again going from memory, the Audi V8 falls into a similar weight league otherwise it would be a very nice motor. The all iron Chevy is 520 lbs, and the Ford crate alum head 302 is 425 lbs (less intake, dist, headers). The Gen III LS1 Chevy is listed at 390 lbs (though someone actually weighted one at 435lbs) complete with EFI, computer, harness, headers, water pump, etc. That would be a great motor for the 914.

Andy

Thanks, I just (ass)(u)(me)d that the newer aluminum motors were lighter. I learn something new everyday.
Old 04-15-2004, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by lapuwali
[On a pushrod motor] Weight will also be inherently lower vertically, for a better CG.
Than what? A dry-sumped flat-layout OHC motor? Like... Say... A 911 six-cylinder? I think the latter wins the "low CG" competition. Not sure if the CG on the Carrera GT's V10 is lower than the H-6 or not.

--DD
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Old 04-15-2004, 02:30 PM
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Type for type, Dave. A 90d V8 with DOHC heads will have a lot of weight up much higher than a 90d V8 with pushrod heads. An inline four with a DOHC head will have the weight up a LOT higher than a pushrod inline four.

While one would think the 911 engine would win the CG contest (and it probably would), the race would be closer than you might think. The V8 guys routinely have to angle the transaxle down a tad because, with the V8 low enough to clear the hood on top the crank is lower in the frame than the crank on a 911 engine. The sump is no lower than the heat exchangers on the 911 engine, so ground clearance is about the same. With Al heads and intake manifold, I'd bet the SBC wouldn't do too badly against the 911 engine on CG height. The crank is the single heaviest component in both engines.
Old 04-15-2004, 02:46 PM
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YES! all german baby, keep it in the family. Dave, the Carrera GT does have a lower CG, the clutch i think has a 6" diameter(or something close to it), to get extra low. As for the CG between a H6 and a V8, we'd need to see the #'s. But guessing, i'd have to say the 6. Granted, lapuwali, you have a good point about the cranks being the most weight, but it seems to me a 6 cylinder german crank is going to be alot lighter and further developted for performance than an american V8, which is more on the heavey duty, long lasting(over built) design metality. Opinions? Cheers, Don.
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Old 04-15-2004, 04:06 PM
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Actually, the 911 crank is relatively heavy. It's pretty thoroughly overdesigned for what it does--I believe it has more main bearings than the SBC crank does! Remember, the SBC runs two rods per rod journal on the crank. It has only five main bearings, while the 911 crank has seven! The 911 crank, partly as a result of that, is about as long as the SBC crank.

Just because it has fewer cylinders doesn't mean the crank is lighter.

--DD
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Old 04-16-2004, 09:00 AM
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