turbo performance

[Rouser]

Bush Cheney huh? you figure out how to use the ballot this year?

Yep; piece-of-cake, just like in 2000.

Democrats might have a tough time with it, though; it still requires them to read it.

[mike mueller]

hey BigD9146gt, not ignoring you, just watching the NBA Finals on the edge of my sofa GO DETROIT !!!!!

Damn, they just lost

Obviously I have some love for the Porsche /6....got a 3.6 that I drive pretty hard, first left hand corner leaving my house has plenty of rubber melted on it from getting the car sideways

I started a /6 conversion, had a 2.2 motor I was going to rebuild...a "proper" rebuild would cost more than I was willing to spend at the time...for some reason all I could think about was taking all that time and money and make 1 bad shift and scatter the damn thing all over the ground....does not matter if it's a /6 or not, all motors have a rpm redline before something goes "boom"

If money was not an issue, I'd throw a 3.6 in my 914 in a minute, but for now and for me, the /4 is the best bang for the buck.

now back to the turbo /4.........cannot wait to fire up mine...gotta get the darn motor to fire up in it's normally asperated state first
(which has nothing to do with the type of motor, it's my miswiring of my aftermarket fuel injection...doh!!!!)

[BigD9146gt]

Awesome mike, please post it when you get done. One of my buddies was saying that for turbo aplications, vanogon heads (bus heads) work well because they do not have the coppor exhaust gasket. They have the typical exhaust type gasket, like what the 944 has. This helped seal the exhaust gasses better to the turbo, plus he had NOS on it, which helped with the turbo lag, and keep the engine cooler. He could run past 911's all day, but he didn't want to run it too high to keep with the 930's for fear of... sorry to be the guy to say it, but more power=heat=BOOM.

Sorry to drag the 6 thing on, but what you said about the 3.6 in the 914, from what i've heard, the 3.6 is a pain in the 914. I'm in the same boat with you, if i could afford it, the 3.6 would be in. Heck, i'd drop a spec 3.8 RSR in a heartbeat, if money was no object. But time and time again, the 3.2 is the most reliable, easiest, no extra cooler needed, change oil and travel across country, works with 901 trans, bullet proof motor there is. Its predisessor, the 3.0 had a very good record, but with the motronic injection, is darn near perfect.

What size motor 4 you making? What kind of fuel injection did you get? Post pics!

Thanks, Don

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

I think the real reason the Vanagon heads are better has been shown in a Shoptalk BBS thread that I linked to in a note here. The thread shows cutaway photos (they took the heads to a band-saw) of the exhaust ports for several Type IV heads. The "square port" Vanagon ones have a ton more metal in the exhaust, which means you can actually do some porting and do some good with it!!

Check down the board a few pages, you'll see the note with the link in it.

--DD

[lapuwali]

Does "square-port" always = "2.0 bus heads" (for the Type IV, not the Type II).

[BigD9146gt]

Lap, the 80-82 "Vanogons" had the square port exhaust with the composit type gasket, as apposed to the copper TIV "bus heads" which were just like the 1.7/1.8 914 heads. later on they went to the 2.0L bus heads, but had the 4 stud intake mount (as apposed to the 914 2L 3 studs), and kept the top spark plug angle(like the 1.8/1.7 914)

[Jake Raby]

The square port has a longer short radius and has the capacity to actually allow some modern bowl shapes and bends to be applied to the port.

We use them on the higher end engines over 2400ccs, as the best oval port head is maxxed out after a 2270. This is why a Turbo 914 has never made good sense to me, since the exhaust ports are so restrictive. Turbos make their benefits by using heat and exhaust pressure to spool up.

To make a Turbo Type IV, square ports should be the first thing you invest in. Don't fool with used ones because they sucked from the factory, and now they have been pushing a 5,000 pound bus and will becracked from hell.. buy a brand new pair and then rebuild them, port them and make your combo based on their flow performance..

[mike mueller]

Jake,

do the exhaust ports of the Vanagon heads face downward like the stock 914/4 heads or are they Type I based?

What kind of cash is required to purchase these heads brand new? After the initial purchase, how much more money needs to be thrown at them to make 'em work for us?

[BigD9146gt]

VW doesn't have any factory new ones anymore. All you can get from the factory is AMC italian nock offs that suck major ass. If you have a core, I know of a company that will rebuild the factory heads just like they were new for $400. But that wouldn't be any good for what you want, just find some used ones and have a machine shop go from there. Cracks and broken stuff can be welded, i used to do it for a reputable machine shop in Mountain View CA, Ellsworth Machine Shop. We got all the bad stuff from all the local Porsche mechanics. Even fixed a V12 Ferrari head who's owner thought he could do his own valve adj job... Bent most of the valves and broke the cam bearing towers... Went back like new.

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

There were 2.0 Bus heads that are not "square port" heads. The square port ones are also called Vanagon heads.

Mueller, find the link I posted earlier, it will answer your questions. In short, yes it has the Type IV exhaust port location.

BigD, you used to work for Ellsworth? Wow... Umm... Let's just say I had a couple of "bad experiences" there and leave it at that.

Oh, and AMC is Spanish--not Italian. (The Spanish are not nearly as known for automotive design as the Italians, so that isn't necessarily a plus.) I have heard that their basic castings are fine but that the seats/guides/etc. are not that good and that their heads should be treated as cores. I've had one of their heads in my hands at SEMA a few years back, but didn't have any way to go over it in detail...

--DD

[Jake Raby]

The AMC castings are fine, I have used them to make 240 daily driven HP. They MUST be rebuilt right out of the box, but all you want is a crack free core with the newer aluminum alloys that they use. The old square ports are just terriable in their metallurgy.

The V-gon heads do have a square exhaust port in the TIV location, it does use a better method of attaching exhaust and flows up to 20% more than any other TIV exhaust port. we actually break 170 CFM with these!

The Type I exhaust port design is what my new heads have... So far we have gotten 255 CFM out of my exhaust port with a 43mm exhaust valve, that should make my 3.0 peak out at 270 ponies! We were able to exactly get our 80% I/E ratio with these heads, and thats something you can only do with a stock casting if you don't port the intakes at all!

[mike mueller]

"rebuilding" the new AMC heads is no big deal for me, I might just bite the bullet and grab a pair from aircooled.net (do you sell them Jake)..unless your heads will be available in the next 6 months and not be too terribly expensive

i'm still going to throw the small turbo on my 1.8 that is in the car right now....I'll need new heads for my 2.0 that you and Brad have of mine since I put those rebuilt 2.0 on my 1.8.