914 sorta six conversion abomination?

[mike95125]

Okey dokey heres the latest...dont try to talk me out of it because Im already in motion.
I have found that a stock 65-69 corvair motor can be boared out to 3.2L to take the Mahle 94mm piston and cylinder. I have found a plac ethat sells said p/c with all of the necessities for $159 us ( for four, but they sell individuals too). I have found great info on how the process is done, and will be engineering my own 911 based fiberglass shroud cooling set up.

What it needs:
110hp block (Dont let the 110 fool ya) 65-69 - $100 for a core
140hp heads (Yeah baby) - $150 ea
Set of 94mm Mahle p/c (+2) - $210
Reversed cam - $150 about at the local shop
Reversed gears and doo dads for dist. - $60
Used 911 11blade fan and housing - ??? (dunno, need one)
used 911 alternator - (see previous statement)???
Need to get heads machined - (varies)
Need to get case machined - (varies)
Must get rods done by someone else - (know my limmitations)

Thats the bulk of it. There are two shops that I know of that will do all of the machining, and all of the p/c and such included for $1500. All you will have to do is fit, and assemble. A rebuild cost about 800 any how so this extra cost may be worth it...., but I need to experiment (and am poor). I may be able to do this at the local shop for less, with some done by me.
The ultimate will be to use a Mega Squirt, or potentially a basterdized stock set up from some cadaver to fuel this abomination, but I can use various carb set ups if I choose for about $400 or less.
To fabricate a mount is quite rudimentary, it utilises the adequate corvair mounting points, two plates to mate those points to the mount holes on the stock eng bar, and the use of some strut bushings.
My goal is to get a steady, reliable 200-225hp for less than $2500, potentially less than $1800. It has been done by experimental aviators for years....thats a pretty good testiment to reliability.
Thoughts, coments, gripes, cheers welcome.
I cant wait to hit my first problem with this, I look forward to the challenge, and I will be documenting all....I hope.
Mike

[krk]

Mike,

I'm a purist -- I believe you should set your goals for your project and go for it. I also believe that documenting projects is a Good Thing(tm). It's what being a pro engineer or pro designer is about. Each of us, when we're considering something new, will have a better chance of success given insights from those who have already tried stuff before.

So if you're convinced and committed, go for it! Keep a log/digi-pics and let 'er rip.

kim.

ps. My current projects are CW projects, both cars and houses! In the car world (914/6), I'm "in step" and in the house world (Eichlers), I'm more "on my own". The universe moves in it's own way.

[derek_sf]

eichler? nice. that will be my next home for sure. I actually live right next to the eichler homes of diamond heights developement.

[jamcleod]

i seem to remember something about the corvair engine rotating in the opposite direction than the 914 motor, that is, putting a corvair engine in with a 901 trans gives you 5 gears in reverse and 1 in forward. someone confirm this.

[JWest]

Reversed cam - $150 about at the local shop

That's what this is for - allows the motor to turn the same direction as a Porsche motor.

[rockaria]

My mechanic friend rebuilds Corvairs. Just last night he was working on one and I said, "Hey That looks like it would fit in my 914?" And his responce was "They do that all the time. There is a Kit to attach them to a VW drivetrain. For your mid engine you would have to fix your tranny or you would need a 911 trany to make it work."

Hmmm... Sounds like somethin there?

[mike95125]

Rock,
as far as my research has showed they dont do it all of the time to 914s, Ive only seen pictures of one, and heard of another, but open to any info. Mainly its done to VW busses, and that is the stock engine pretty much. I am attempting a 3.2L monster whose power will manly rely on how I asperate it. I already have the adapter (ebay $120), and it can be bought at a few places for around $400 and down.
jamcloud,
you are correct sir, and James has it handled. I could also reverse the differential in the 901 to make it work with the stock rotation for the engine. However, I am interested in using a 911 fan set up and the stock rotation would make to fan blow air out the front rather than suching it in over the engine. I could also stay stock on the corvair fan, but I think its ugly and the 911 is better and more of a challenge.
Kim,
thanks for the encouragement. I intend to encounter failures, and that is the main reason for documenting this. Also, if it were not for those who have documented similar before me, I would not be nearly as confident.

"If I have seen farther than others it has only been only by standing on the shoulders of giants."

I will place some of the better links with pictures on the aviation side of the business here later. Cant now, Im at school.
Mike

[maf 914]

A company named Autodynamics, which used to make small formula racing cars such as FVee, made a series of mid-engined buggies called Deserter GT's. These used Corvair engines and VW transaxles. I guess they flipped the ring and pinion. I have a friend who bought one several years ago and has recently sold it.

Mike

[bander]

Is the cam the only thing that need to be changed? You said something about small dizzy parts in your list. What about the oil pump?

[J P Stein]

Humm.....Over the years, I've resisted the urge to put a SB Chebbie in the back seat of a Corvair. Back in the 80s I ran into a guy that had done it.....but it wasn't very sanitary. Saw a nice one at the mall a few years ago.....some kinda display of hot rods.

There is a nice (from afar) one sitting out in the rain just up the street.....66 or later. I look at it every time I drive by and wonder......

To this thread:
I had some contact with a fella in Oklahoma some time back.
He had a Corvair 6 in the back of a 914.....ran 3 pot Webers.
He seemed pretty serious about AX. Sounded like he was havin' fun. Thas all I gots.

[mike95125]

Bander,
I know that there is at least a distributor gear , and possibly one for the oil pump that needs to be purchased.

J P,
I can have the heads milled to accept 3pot webbers, but that will ultimately be at a later time when my $$$ have grown. I will probably run a four barrel Holy carb on it till I can get the FI stuff sorted out.

maf914,
Yup. There are neumerous buggies with this powerplant, planes, and boats too.
check out
for a pic of a buggy with the cooling set up Im attempting to reproduce.
http://www.extremebuggies.com/onshow/showroom.asp?series=45

Also for all that are interested, check out this guys web sit on his plane:
http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/corvair/default.htm

This guy is amazing in his coverage. Check out all of the blue links in the mid page, very informative.
Enjoy!

[John Rogers]

For the cooling shroud, if you want to come by my house and take pictures and measurements of the one on my race car you are welcome to?! I would imagine this will produe a monster amount of torque as my stroker has well over 200 ftlbs and it is only a 78mm stoke. I would look closely at the clutch pressure plate and the rear suspension and make sure that it is reenforced some so the consoles don't rip loose? You'll also need some sort of sheet metal to seperate the hot air from the underside of the engine with the intake side cool air. I had to make my own when we put the 911 fan on it. Good luck.

[Andyrew]

How come its car projects we(me+dad) work on and then the wife(mom in my case) "works on the house".. ie. we do both.. i seem to see that going on alot, eather house or work..

On the engine building, i think that would be cool... my thought would be a 914 engine and a big stroker kit, and probably 96mm pistons, then some good cooling things, water injection, exaust, FI, and turbocharging. that or a 400hp 350 oh chevy.drool...

[mike95125]

another link with a dyno spread sheet.http://www.corvairkid.com/190cid_01.htm

John,
That is awfully nice of you. I may just take you up on the offer over my winter break. Thanks!

[krk]

Originally posted by derek_sf
eichler? nice. that will be my next home for sure. I actually live right next to the eichler homes of diamond heights developement.

I explain my 914 "projects" to my fellow eichler owners as "think of a 914 as a sort of mobile eichler" (and they *get* it). I explain my eichler addition to my 914 (and other porsche friends) as "think of it as a really large scale, stationary, 914" and they *get" it.

There are so many parallels, it's scary. Most project 914's go through periods of non-driving status (even though you have to cope with getting around) -- my house is currently in sort-of non-living status (but of course I'm living here) It goes on.. and on...

But it will be so cool at the end! (yes, it's a CW project, we're essentially putting it back to 1960 spec's -- mucho digging to find original paint colors, appliances, etc -- sound familiar? Yes, we're hot rodding parts of it

In a post and beam building, think of the equivalent of "rust in the longs"...

krk.

[red-beard]

I'm an East Coaster - recently transplanted to San Diego...

What the Heck is an "eichler" house?

James

And don't give me none o-them circular 914 references....

[krk]

James,

No zen stuff I promise Joseph Eichler was a developer in CA in the 50's and 60's. (actually longer, but the houses I'm talking about generally date to that period) They are mostly in the bay area, with a couple hundred in on the north side of LA. They are post and beam style construction, usually with lots of glass. A google on Eichler should turn up lots of stuff. In my case, the one I got is in fair condition, but the restoration project that is now in full swing has slowed my P projects to a crawl.

krk.

[red-beard]

I see, the sort of "ahead of it's time" thing. Yep, sounds like a 914 Enthusist would fall right into that trap!

James

[krk]

James,

There are many funny parallels. Our tract is a set of about 85 homes. It's like we joined a cult. Imagine 85 914 owners living in a camp surrounded by an unending sea of chevette owners. We spend a lot of time checking out other folks house mods, and planning our own. We also debate what was original equipment, and the rest of the valley thinks we're a little outside the lines. So I'm now in two cults. Actually, I'm down to just two. (if talking about houses is a little ourside the lines, I won't bring up the dog thing, nor the free software thing...lol)

krk.