HELP ME make an engine rebuild parts list for a 944-S!!!

[URIN 2ND]

Hi all!

I am trying to assemble a parts list to rebuild an 88 944-S motor. Money is somewhat of an issue; the mileage was about 115k and the motor was in good shape, but she spun a rod bearing and the motor was taken fully apart to inspect.

I need to save money where ever I can, so what's the smartest way to go about doing a budget/minimalist motor rebuild, seeing as how the motor is already taken apart? I am not familiar with 944 motors AT ALL, as I am a new owner!!! Thanks in advance for your info!

Could you please add to my lists below or make corrections to help me out? Here's what I figure so far, but I need advice!

REBUILD LIST:
Piston Ring Set, Standard, 944S (1987-88), 944 (1989), 944S2
DV-2406-STD
$94.75

Intake/Exhaust Valve Guide, 1st Replacement, 944S, 944S2
E-104-327-51
$3.75 x16 = $60.00

Head Gasket Set, 944S
E-100-901-04
$132.50

Lower end gasket set, 944S
E-100-901-03
$121.25

Spark Plug Seals, 944S (1987-88), 944S2 (1988-91), 968 (1992-95) for use with the above Cam Housing Gasket, 4 required, sold per each
F-104-443-08
$1.50 x4 = $6.00

Rod Bearing Set
F-103-143-02
$49.85

Main Bearing Set
E-101-901-00
$126.25

Cam chain tensioner
(planning on replacing but can't find the part on this site)

Timing belt

Accessory belt

...ok, that about does it for the new parts I think. Here's my optional parts, which I may be forced to re-use depending on budget and condition of these parts:

-H20 pump
-Rollers/tensioners
-Clutch

Is there anything else that I am forgetting? Please let me know. Remember, I'm on a budget, and I just need to get the car back on the road again. I am not interested in replacing things that show no sign of needing to be replaced; only the things that are *required*, and then maybe some other things that I should change, budget allowing, since the motor is out of the car and disassembled.

Thanks a bunch!

[SoCal Driver]

URIN,

Sell the engine and get on with your implant.

A good 944S (no space or hyphen) head is worth $2,000.

Could get $3,000 for the engine as it sits.

[URIN 2ND]

Well, you know, I thought about that...but I don't know. See, I just bought this car, and it is sitting up north in Washington. After much debating, I have decided it will be better to rebuild the stock motor and drive the car home.

Then I will have a *new* motor I can sell at a later date, and I will have bought myself *time* to build a proper tranny for the LT4 motor.

I know it seems like the ideal opportunity to go ahead and do the swap now, but I just don't have the space or the resources right now. And I need to get that car back here from Washington state!!!

Oh, and the reason I hyphenate the 'S' is because I've seen many people who are talking about multiple 944s...and it looks like 944S. Especially when ordering parts or asking tech questions, I want to make sure there's no confusion!

[SoCal Driver]

Does the crank need to be reground? Take it to a reputable machine shop and have them check it. If it they can regrind it then just do the rod and main bearings. If it just needs a polish then you are money ahead.

Stick it all back together with a new set of rings, timing and balance belts and a new cam chain tensioner and chain and drive it liesurly down to Seal Beach.

You don't have to do anything to the cylinders to prep for the rings.

I have this strong feeling that there will be more to repair once the engine is running again.

[URIN 2ND]

Alrighty...so you're almost on the same page as me.

I know there may be more to do later...but I am forced to wait due to lack of funds. I *may* put in a clutch while she's apart (found new ones for $360!) but I'm not sure yet, the stock clutch may last til the 350 goes in.

So then...what parts, specifically, do you think I may be able to take off my list? It seems that I got all the main items on there, right? Is there anything I listed that I may not need?

The valve guides are probably ok...maybe I could have a head shop look at the head. That would save me a lot right there, just doing the seals and not rebuilding the head if it's in good shape.

[SoCal Driver]

Could replace just the clutch disk and the TO bearing IF it feels rough.

[URIN 2ND]

Cool, I am starting to narrow it down. The condition of the tensioners alone can fluctuate the price by about 500 bucks, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Looks like the head has been rebuilt once already, so I'm probably ok there.

Man I am nervous to actually start building this thing!

One last Q...is it ok to re-use the main bearings? I wouldn't think they are bad at 115k. Arrrgh...mucho dinero!

[SoCal Driver]

Most important that you have a good chain tensioner and pad.

You will also need a pair of dial indicators to set the cams back up. Guess you could use one and just move it side to side to get it close then worry about it at a more convenient time.

Don't know where you get $500 for tension rollers. Just two that you really need. The others are just to keep the belts from slapping.

[URIN 2ND]

Chain tensioner and timing belt tensioner were both over $200+ each, IIRC.

What's this dial indicator crud I'm hearing about...aren't there marks on the cams?! I don't own a dial gauge. Is this a common tool, available at Napa or anything?

[Britwrench]

The timing belt tensioner ROLLER is much less than $200.
To remove the head, you need to remove the cams, which means you should retime them, especially if you are replacing the chain. You need two dial gauges to do this. Again, do not attempt any repairs without current and accurate technical information and adequate tools.
If the rod bearing has gone (engine knocks) be prepared to buy another rod and crank if the damage is severe. With rod failure bearing particles are always distributed through the engine so a complete strip and clean will be needed, along with replacement of all composite bearings (rod, main, balance shaft etc). Thoroughly clean, preferably ultrasonically, the oil cooler.

Personally, I would get a used 8V engine and slap that in, after changing the water pump and belts. Probable cost; less than $1200 even with parts and tools.

[URIN 2ND]

To remove the head, you need to remove the cams, which means you should retime them, especially if you are replacing the chain.

Motor is already out of the car and disassembled; crank is at a shop getting turned. No need for a spare motor, everything is in great shape! I'll do the chain, maybe the tensioner...I had a part number for just the plastic piece on top of the tensioner so maybe I'll just do that if it seems brittle.

Engine didn't ingest anything, just had some rod knock under low load and the PO took the motor out of the car and tore it down to inspect. He was planning a Chevy motor so he had boxed up this engine and let the car sit. That's when I found it on EBay...he gave up on it, had other priorities. The PO is actually helping me rebuild the motor at his place so I can drive it home!

Wow...you'd sooner do an 8v swap then rebuild a 16v motor?! Why?! I'm in under 1000 for all the parts I need and I'm pretty much done buying parts! And I'd much rather have the 190hp than the 147!

Besides...I'm doing a Chevy swap myself. I'll be selling the S motor soon and I'll be able to get more for this with a full rebuild.

[AFJuvat]

A few considerations you need to factor in.

Bearing failure:

All oil galleries must be cleaned.

Oil cooler is suspect, impossible to clean completely, replacement is advised. (Bearing material contamination)

Chain tensioner MUST be replaced. J pipe should be replaced also. (bearing material contamination)

Head should be disassembled and checked before purchasing parts. In either case, you shopuld replace the valve seals - valve guides only if they are out of spec,

Oil pump gear should be replaced

Cylinders must be measured per factory manual for proper specification. Obvious wear or shiny spots indicate boring and honing are required. Special equipment is required to hone cylinders.


AFJuvat

[SoCal Driver]

Maybe the chain tensioner? At least buy a replacement pad. Think Rennbay.com has that for around $30.

I agree on just going to a local wrecking yard and getting a complete running 8 valve (this includes the intake, electrionics and it's wire harness) and sticking it in to be able to drive the car down to Seal Beach. You could lighten the load by selling the 16 valve head and using half the money to buy the 8 valve engine.

[944pete]

Originally posted by Britwrench
The timing belt tensioner ROLLER is much less than $200.

I believe he's talking about the spring tensioner for the timing belt, not the eccentric style tensioner on pre-87's.
$200 is about right for that part.

[Britwrench]

That may be, but why would you need a complete tensioner. I've never either sold or installed one since working on 944s. That would be from
when they came out in Europe...

[URIN 2ND]

Ugh...you Porsche guys are beyone anal retentive!

Why would you consider a normally-functioning part that is well within spec "MUST replace"? Even to the point of a completely new motor just because this one needed rod bearings?!

I do appreciate the advice, believe me...but I'm just trying to rebuild the motor I have, not replace it with a weaker 8v motor! I mean, would a 993 Turbo owner swap in a 930 motor because the rod bearings went out?!

Oil *galleys* are all cleaned up...aftermarket oil cooler is 40 bucks even if I can't manage to get this one clean, but I'm sure it will be fine...can someone explain why the chain tensioner MUST be replaced, even if it's in good working order?! I understand if it fails I'm in BIG trouble...but can't a new part fail just the same? Please let me know exactly what fails on this part if you know. Thanks!

[SoCal Driver]

URIN,

Don't get insulting. There is a reason for most everything we make a point about. I have almost 20 years with these cars and I know that the two that have jumped into this thread have as much if not more.

If you don't want our advice then don't ask for it.

[URIN 2ND]

Easy there, turbo! No one is insulting. See the smileys??? I just find it interesting is all.

It's much more effort, time and hassle to locate, purchase, haul and install another engine...an 8v instead of 16v at that...and then I'm taking a chance with someone *else's* motor, which could end up having problems in itself. At least I know what I'm getting rebuilding this one, you know?

Anyway...it just seems that a lot of people are throwing money away. I saw a post not long ago where someone recommended changing the waterpump with EVERY BELT CHANGE, and listed ~30-~45k intervals. That's a little extreme I think!

Same goes for tensioners...unless someone can explain exactly how they break/fail. But if the tensioner is clean, and works well, and shows no sign of trouble...why replace it? I just don't understand, that's all! No one was insulting anybody else...please try to have a sense of humor. It's just a car.

[gtroth]

If you think they rebuilt the head once already, maybe the chain tensioner is new. heh?.

AFJuvat - the J pipe seemed obscenely expensive for what it is (~US$100). I passed on that. What happens? Does 'bearing material contamination' clog it? Can it be cleaned...?

[Britwrench]

Rod bearing failure in any engine is serious. No-one would ever suggest replacing a motor just because the bearings were worn. Rod failure distributes bearing material throught the oil system which if not cleaned out causes another failure. If the engine is not completely cleaned, including the oil cooler, the bearings will fail again. An aftermarket oil cooler won't be $40. I don't know how bad your S engine is so it's your call and your money.