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Join Date: May 2004
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Rear hub replacement

Ok when i bought the car supposedly it had a bad transmission. There was a constant clunking and pedal pulsation. Today the was a lound clunck then a huge grinding metal on metal noise which in repsose i jerked the wheel into the nearest housing developement to take a look. As soon as i made this violent turn it stopped entirely... the sound. There was no more clunking or grinding, just completely smooth acceleration and deceleration.

I finished driving home very happy with my car now being fixed, and i jacked it up and removed all 4 wheels to take a look. Everything seemed fine so i put everything bakc on and went out for another drive. This time and made a lound clunk and grind and it didnt go away. It caused my rear end to lock up and i slid onto the shoulder to a stop. I began to drive away feeling almost as if the emergency brake were locked up and i made it back home. It was less than a mile away so it wasnt too bad. I got home and smoke was pouring out of the rear.

The driver side wheel was completely squatting. I removed the tire only to find that the entire hub had broken loose. This set up is a bit of a mystery to me so i was wondering how i would go about replacing these. Both axels are new on the car, so i assume that they are separate from this hub thing as they did not fix the problem.

What parts will i need to order, and where could i order them from? I will be replacing both of the rear ones, and if the front bearings arent too expensive i would like to replace them as well as all 4 rotors prefferably with cross drilled ones.

Thanks,
Shawn

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Old 05-24-2004, 05:11 PM
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Take a look at this parts picture. Tell us by number what failed.

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Old 05-24-2004, 05:29 PM
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When you figure out which parts you need, drop me a line. I have some fairly new stuff off of a early car I just got done parting out.
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Good prices for injuried cars!! 944's only though!!!!
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Old 05-24-2004, 05:34 PM
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The stub axle did not break i know that much. It is all still attached, but feels like it woudl if you put it back together without any bearings at all. I dont have it apart because i do not have the right size socket. It looks to be about a 1 7/16 - 1 1/2 or 36-37mm to me. From what i see though, in the top pic
2-6

and the bottom i am not too sure since my rotor is still on. Is that stupid little screw what holding my rotor on?

The stub axel seems to have slid out towards the transmission. Grease was sprayed everywhere in my wheel well. I can feel a washers of some sort, and it looks like maybe #7 is with the washer not even in the knuckle.

The best way to drescribe what it feels like is this, use #1 and attach 9, 16, 18, and 14. It just feels like nothing is there. hopefully tomorrow i will have a socket big enough to remove all of this and i will take pics.

My intention is to replace ALL of the bearings and seals front and rear and then have my problem fixed. Not that i am lazy and incapable of determining broken parts, but just because i might as well while i can so i won't have to worry about it again.
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Old 05-24-2004, 05:50 PM
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Just did this repair over the weekend.

36mm socket for the steel trailing arm.
12 point/triplesquare 8mm for the CV's.

36 mm can be borrowed from autozone, discount auto parts etc. Yes, the castle nut is holding your hub on at 350lbs of torque. It is not really that hard to break though, providing nothing is really bent.


Make sure the stub axle (part#1 in diagram) is not scored.

All of the relevent seals and bearings can be sourced from pelican for the best price. You will also need a heavy duty cotter pin.

If you need help let me know.....I will be posting pics of my job in the next few days in another post.
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Old 05-24-2004, 06:19 PM
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If his axle is making all that noise I think the nut is loose because the outer roller bearing failed. What scares me is his report of the axle backing out. If the nut is still tight, the hub is not loose, then I don't think the axle came out.

Just might be a loose CV joint.

Shawn you really need some one that has experiance on these swing arms give you some one on one help. Maybe a local VW repair shop.

Yes the flat head phillips screws keep the rotor on the hub. Use an impact driver if you can't get these loose with a large screw driver.
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When was the last time you changed your timing and balance belts and/or cam chain and tensioner?
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Old 05-24-2004, 08:43 PM
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Mine isnt a flathead though, it's a phillips. I was thinking the nut was probably loose too, but it's not hand loose like it should be. So if this CV joint did fail is that a big problem? Both axels are new so wouldn't they be new too? I admit to knowing close to nothing about this type of car, but i would like to know as much as i can.
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Old 05-24-2004, 09:05 PM
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The stub axle can slide if 2,5,6,7, and or 10 fail, all of which are compression points. Is there rotational play? ie can you roll the axle stub around at all? Either way, you're going to need new bearings and seals. The process is relatively simple to do and clarks garage has a write up to familiarize yourself with.

I did mine a month ago and the bearings and seals are the exact same parts as used on Type 1 VW's (Beetle and Ghia) with the IRS rear (68+) Got a local VW shop? They probably carry the german bearings.

Note: there's a HUGE circlip holding 5 into the trailing arm, so get a good pair of snap ring pliers. you might just learn some new four letter words!
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Old 05-25-2004, 04:34 AM
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I hate Porsche circlips.

I would use staight tip ones for the trailing arm......beefy ones.
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Old 05-25-2004, 06:46 AM
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I buy and mod beefy extended needle nose pliers for doing specific clips.

Shawn, If you just did the axles you better check that the bolts are tight. May have loosened up.

As to "learning": You have to get the Haynes manual and read it cover to cover several times. Also go to www.clarks-garage.com and read everything he has on his web site. Keep in mind that the rear suspension changed in 85.5 model year. Yours is the earlier one as shown on the diagram above.

If you jack up the rear wheel, grab it at the top and the bottom and can move/wiggle it then something is wrong with the stub axle. Can be the bearing(s). Can be the hub.

Then all this just may be bad brake pads or a loose caliper.
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When was the last time you changed your timing and balance belts and/or cam chain and tensioner?
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Old 05-25-2004, 07:46 AM
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ok i removed the axle nut. There are pieces of metal everywhere. Bearing rollers, shavings, chips, everything. The axle doesnt seem to be messed up, but i don't know yet. I have to go buy some torx bits 8 mm or so, to remove the axle/CV joint. Where the emergency brake attaches(#9) also needs to be replaced. The axle wore it out of round. If you want i can take pictures if that will help any.

So could the axle have been damaged, or the bearing housing whatever it may be called?
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Old 05-25-2004, 12:15 PM
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Yes.

You need to carfully check the stub axle when you pull the bearing. You will not be able to tell until it is pulled.

Clean ALL grease and metal from the housing.

You don't need a torx you need a 12 point 8mm. Napa calls it a Serrated bit and yes they usually have them in stock, but the guy behind the counter probably won't know what they are.


No offense but......Are you sure your not in over your head on this one?
It isn't that I think you can't do the job without any familiarity with the components (this was my first bearing/cv job) but I DID study it quite a bit in the manuals before attempting it.
Read what Hugh is saying and check out the links as well. All the info is there.
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Old 05-25-2004, 12:54 PM
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Have you ever seen in a VR4? The only hinderance would be unfamiliarity. As long as i can get the parts i can do it. I just need to know what parts i'm gonna need. I have plenty of experience on all types of cars being that i was an an automotive trade school for 3 years. We just never got any Porsches. It all seems simple enough. The main thing was i wasnt sure if they were all supposed to be together or not like some sealed bearings.

I guess i'll just order all of the pieces once i clean it all out and see that nothing is damaged. I found some stub axles for sale which i am just gonna buy along with all new bearings and seals. I don't think that the nut was tightened all the way down, because i was able to get it off with just a breaker bar, no jack or impact gun. I didnt replace the axles on there now. When i bought it the guy said they were new. He narrowed it down to needing a new trans. I guess he was just replacing piece by piece. The noise was making was definately a bearing and not pinion.

I didnt look at the bolts too closely, but i figured they were torx. I have never head of a serrated bit so im glad you told me that. I do have the haynes manual. The owner gave it to me when i bought the car. I haven't looked at it yet, but i will later tonight.

Would you all reccomend replacing anything else while i have it all apart? Maybe springs or shocks? I as wondering if there were any worthwhile suspension upgrades for these cars. I plan on running Carrera wheels with 215 50zr17 in the front and 255 40zr17 in the rear. Would this be a good set up? I don't know much about suspension.

Mainly i learned R&R, and picked up some turbocharged performance experience, but still i do not know hardley anything of making a good road/race car. I don't plan on making this a race car, but if i do have to replace something i would like to replace it with a performance part. What would you reccomend for suspension?
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Old 05-25-2004, 01:28 PM
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944 suspension pretty damn good right out of the box. May add a rear swaybar from the turbo if you are thinkin of a little autox.

As far as the parts go, just replace all of the seals and bearings that are in the diagram above. With older cars or it doesn't pay to 'just replace the bad one' on too much.

You need inner bearing, outer bearing, inner seal, outer seal (same pn), o-ring(I think), a cotterpin, cv/bearing grease, brake cleaner and lots of paper towels.

Supposedly you SHOULD be able to remove the castle nut with only a breaker bar or something could be wrong. Mine both took a 3' breaker with my 200lbs resting on it. That is pretty close to 350ft/lbs.

Good write-up on clarks-garage and *****************

Will have pics by tommorow

With most wheel upgrade our early cars have to run spacers...which I am going through now. You will need front and rear not for them to work, but for them to look right. Unless you get aftermarket wheels that already have the right offset built-in.
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Old 05-25-2004, 01:42 PM
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Shawn, Any pictures showing the damage would be very useful. I'm currious as to the wear in the parking brake plate. Try to size the pictures to 400 pixels wide to post here.

The axle is most likely junk if the outer roller bearing had a major failure. The inner race of the roller bearing turns on the axle and peans it. When it gets undersize all of the stack up on the axle that the large nut compresses moves and soon come loose. This lets the inner race of the roller bearing turn starting this mess all over again.

You have to replace the stub axles with NEW stub axles. Used ones are just as worn out as the ones in your car.

So you are looking at the axle as well as the two bearings, two seals and one 0-ring. Need to flush all of the grease out of the hub housing too.
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Old 05-25-2004, 02:22 PM
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I didn't know that the sub axles wore out on these cars. Is that on the older cars or do the later cars wear out as well?
Old 05-25-2004, 04:37 PM
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I thought Porsche also recently discontinued stub axles ??
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Old 05-25-2004, 04:41 PM
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I don't thing the stub axle should really wear UNLESS there was unattended bearing damage/failure.

Mine looked like it was just born. Smooth was smooth and grooved was grooved.


I guess they could weaken due to stress?
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Old 05-25-2004, 05:55 PM
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Get a micrometer and check them. Bet you will find the area where the outer bearing's inner race rides at least 0.005" if not over 0.010" undersize (not good). Several used ones I got recently looking for a good one, are unusable.

I also don't think that the axles pean only when there is a major bearing failure.
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NOT a 'real' Porsche -- Its Better!!!!
When was the last time you changed your timing and balance belts and/or cam chain and tensioner?
New Users please add your car's year and model to your signature line!
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Old 05-25-2004, 06:56 PM
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Quick question. Are 924's compatible with 944 completely? I only ask because about 10 mile away from my house i found a 924 for sale. It runs fine with a 4 speed LSD trans and all it needs is an ignition switch, and water pump, but it will run as is. Would the bearings and stub axles fit from this, and would i be able to part it out for what's left of it is worth? He is asking $700 for it. I havent seen it yet, but my dad has and says it looks really good. Also if anyone would be interested in any of the parts let me know.

Thanks,
Shawn

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Old 05-26-2004, 08:59 AM
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