So I'm thinking of using a Fram oil filter...

Makenzie71 · 10-31-2004, 11:48 PM

I recently found out that Fram has an insurance policy that covers damaged from defective products. So if I run the Fram filter, and it's the definative cause of my engine fouling (like, if the casing splits and all my oil blows out flrying bearings and such) their policy covers it...and I want a new motor.

Any suggestions as to how I could be extra abusive to the filter?

...lol...

~edit...I lost the link that I had that would have made this funny...

~

Zero10 · 11-01-2004, 04:34 AM

Oh dear...
I believe the Fram filters do not have the check valves in them, so if you run them for a perlonged period of time, they may eventually lead to a top end failure.

I bet that if you put a claim in with Fram, they would fight it tooth and nail, and even if it was legit, they probably wouldn't pay.

livewirevoodoo · livewirevoodoo's Garage

Curious... whats a check-valve and what does it do?

Rmills944 · 11-01-2004, 06:35 AM

http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy.html
Start reading. You have to be able to prove it was the oil filter's fault the engine failed. What's the chance of that? Slim to none. The insurance policy is worthless when you stop to think about it - especially when you look at the comparison study in the link.

sasquatch · 11-01-2004, 07:36 AM

Most Frams now do have the anti-drainback valve in them. But, they still have cardboard internals that I refuse to use.

Taz's Master · 11-01-2004, 08:14 AM

Fram seems to have decided that it is easier and more profitable to market a poor product, rather than to produce a superior product. If an insurance policy can induce you to support that type of corporate mindset, then you are indeed Fram's target audience.

sasquatch · 11-01-2004, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Taz's Master
Fram seems to have decided that it is easier and more profitable to market a poor product, rather than to produce a superior product. If an insurance policy can induce you to support that type of corporate mindset, then you are indeed Fram's target audience.

To add to this. It is cheaper for them to make an incredibly cheap product, and mass market it making the consumer believe it is the best. OEM pricing for Fram filters is near nothing, that is why most auto parts stores all carry them. Good name recognition and profit for them.

It only costs me about $3 a year more for a good oil filter over a Fram. Cheap insurance.

Nigel Haslock · 11-01-2004, 09:43 AM

Last time I looked in my local Schuck's, they wanted $13 or more for the appropriate Fram. Pelican asks for less for a Mahle even when you include shipping. That makes it a no brainer for me. So I ordered crush washer for the drain plug at the same time.

Nigel

toolboy62 · 11-01-2004, 09:43 AM

Frams do have anti-drainback valves in them, but they don't work. The only place I would use a Fram would be on an engine that has a "right side up" (i.e. threads perfectly vertical) oil filter. I had nothing but bad experiences with them on old Slant Six MoPars (also use an "upside down" oil filter like a 944) - the engines would rattle and knock for several seconds on a cold start, with the oil light on the whole time. Replacing the filter with a Wix unit solved the "problem." when there's so many good filters available at the parts store like Wix/NAPA Gold, Purolator, Baldwin, et. al. I don't see why you'd want to use crap like Fram.

nate

Makenzie71 · 11-01-2004, 11:51 AM

lol....just to point out....the closest parts store that caries Wix/Napa Gold, Purolator, Baldwin, and etc. filters is almost 100 miles from me...

. Fram is out here left an right.

Now...just to state...Fram got themselves a bad name and it's sticking with them, despite the fact that their products have improved by leaps and bounds. The check valves do work. The endcaps are not cardboard, but are a fiber composite that's similar to cardboard only far more durable than their previous products (but, no, not as durable as the metal stamped or polymer caps used by most other manufacturers). The filtration quality of the Tough Guard series (I think, the second from the lowest priced filter) is the best they have to offer, and is better than a couple other brands.

Fram's biggest problem is that, even though they offer superior products, they still offer and mass sell the same crap they used to sell back when they got their bad name. If I actually used a Fram filter, it would be the Tough Guard series, the rest are the same generic crap they've always sold. I would also be changing it every 1500 miles.

Also, it's irritating to hear someone say that Mahle filters are only a dollar or two more per filter than other brands EVERYTIME an oil filter thread gets started. You guys who keep saying that need to realize that no one will ship an oil filter for less than $5...which makes the Mahle oil filter nearly TWICE the cost of what can be found on the shelf.

Porsche-O-Phile · Porsche-O-Phile's Garage

AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!

MY EYES!!! MY EYES!!!

And how pray tell would you collect from Fram for the cost of your engine replacement when it fails? You honestly expect them to just pony up a few thousand for a new Porsche engine? HAHAHAHAHA!!!

They'll give you the old "prove it was us and not due to some other circumstance". Good luck.

Trust me, stick with Mahle. Porsche did so for a reason. If you MUST go aftermarket, I'd recommend the Wix (Napa Gold) ones.

Makenzie71 · 11-01-2004, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Makenzie71
I~edit...I lost the link that I had that would have made this funny...~

Even though I can no longer find the link (it's now dead, actually), I was almost CERTAIN that this line alone would make a point of the original post. Anyone who takes this post seriously is a boob.

Also, their insurance policy is just like any other filter manufacturer's policy. You must attain certified documentation from an unspecified mechanic (certified mechanic, professionally trained to work on the specific vehicle) stating that the filter is at fault. If Fram choses to investigate, they can do so. If the findings contradict one another they can refuse to cover damages. If they refuse, which they most likely will, then off to court it goes.

I've read many stories over this, and a friend of mine experienced first hand. Very lengthy and drawn out process, but if you persist then you will probably get what you want in the end.

Nigel Haslock · 11-01-2004, 01:10 PM

Local Schucks price for the appropriate filter for my 924S is $16, when they have them in stock. Pelican price for a Mahle is $5 or so.

For me, the Mahle is cheaper. I didn't say that it works for everyone. I was trying to hint that shopping around is a good idea and that assuming that the manufacturer's recommended brand is not necessarily more expensive.

I'm not even saying the Mahle is necessarily better. I am saying that I will not pay more money for a filter with a bad rep when I can get the brand Porsche used easily and cheaply and without needing to make a trip to the parts store (thus saving 30 minutes for writing replys here).

bryanthompson · bryanthompson's Garage

Heh, now that you've posted about your plan to try scamming them... it'll haunt you forever. Even if the filter self-destructed and tore the heck out of your engine... with this thread as evidence, you'll never get a dime.

Stick with Mahle... Just order 'em by the 4 pack off of ebay, they're cheapish enough.

sasquatch · 11-01-2004, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Makenzie71
Also, it's irritating to hear someone say that Mahle filters are only a dollar or two more per filter than other brands EVERYTIME an oil filter thread gets started. You guys who keep saying that need to realize that no one will ship an oil filter for less than $5...which makes the Mahle oil filter nearly TWICE the cost of what can be found on the shelf.

You might be able to do some research and find the filters locally. Boise, Idaho is by no means the center of the universe, and I can get Mann, Mahle, Bosch, NAPA, Wix, K&N and Mobil 1 filters at multiple locations. Check with your local VW guys, see where they get their filters. You probably have a nice little import parts house somewhere.

Heck, I see lots of 5 Mahle or Mann filters go on Ebay for $20-25 bucks all the time.

bryanthompson · bryanthompson's Garage

Does anyone know if it's true that Baldwin made filters for Mahle? My grandpa might have been blowing smoke up my ass, but he seems to think that they did... If so, I live like, 30 miles from the Baldwin place... If they really are the same thing, heck, i'll get those.

Makenzie71 · 11-01-2004, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sasquatch
You might be able to do some research and find the filters locally. Boise, Idaho is by no means the center of the universe, and I can get Mann, Mahle, Bosch, NAPA, Wix, K&N and Mobil 1 filters at multiple locations. Check with your local VW guys, see where they get their filters. You probably have a nice little import parts house somewhere.

Heck, I see lots of 5 Mahle or Mann filters go on Ebay for $20-25 bucks all the time.

I live almost 100 miles from the nearest real NAPA store...I think the nearest volkswagen is in the same area...

Dantilla · 11-01-2004, 03:15 PM

I buy Mahle filters here at Pelican. Last time I ordered six (and a couple for the 911). The additional amount required for shipping is minimized that way. Doesn't hurt to keep some extras out in the garage.

If you can post here on the forum, you are not too far out in the sticks to get a good price on proper oil filters.

I usually order a bunch of things at one time when I get anything from our host. That way shipping is not a factor.

Makenzie71 · 11-01-2004, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dantilla
If you can post here on the forum, you are not too far out in the sticks to get a good price on proper oil filters.

toolboy62 · 11-01-2004, 04:18 PM

I dunno about any Baldwin/Mahle connection - but I do know that Baldwin and Hastings appear to be the same company. But the last oil filter test I read seemed to indicate that one was preferable to the other one was really good while one was just average... wish I could remember which was which. Doesn't matter to me, I stick with Wix or NAPA Gold (and those *are* the same) unless I'm ordering parts in which case I usually tack on a Mahle filter to my order just because.

nate