Turbo a NA 944..

weee151 · 09-05-2005, 07:32 PM

Hey guy's.. opinions on turboing a N/A 944?... I'm looking for a project to work on and i always wanted a 944T but haven't found any that meet my standards.. anyways.. suggestions / comments would be appericated.

docsafi · 09-05-2005, 07:38 PM

buy a 951 and save some money

weee151 · 09-05-2005, 08:07 PM

that thought had crossed my mind, but this is going to be a project.. anyways i can get a wholesale on the parts..

fast924S · fast924S's Garage

DO A SEARCH! This topic has been covered sooooooooooo many times that it hurts

Moneyguy1 · 09-05-2005, 08:20 PM

Always the same answer......

Actually, if this is a project car, and if you have an open mind (and wallet), consider a GM V-6, either Olds or Buick Crate engine should be under $1,200.. Talk to Renegade Hybrids.

There are so many things to go wrong with any 944/951 engine, especially as they age (not so gracefully). If I had the time and energy (getting up there in years!!), I would marry the beauty of the body design with an engine that was as durable as a flatiron (read TIMING CHAIN!!). Not to mention a tad more torque and displacement (and parts available from a number of places at reasonable prices!!) There are only so many 951s out there, and every month finds the number going down due to accident or self destruction. Note also the plethora of R&P problems recently, even with NAs.

Happy wrenching. Let us know what you decide on!!

Brando · Brando's Garage

Forget a turbo conversion... if you've got that kind of cash, drop in a Small-Block Chevy V8. Will take you just as long and be just as complicating.

924Sman · 09-06-2005, 03:59 AM

Wait.....let me grab my popcorn!

Ok now for the flogging!

Porsche-O-Phile · Porsche-O-Phile's Garage

Yep. Chevy v8 conversions. Nothin' like having 400 horsepower and no brakes on a car that's all about handling in curves. Great idea.

Z-man · Z-man's Garage

Turbocharging an n/a 944 does not make any sense. Period. End of story. MOVE ON.

-Z.

seaboltman · 07:44 AM

... part of the v8 conversion is upgrading the brakes...

The official line is buy the 951 and make it meet your standards. It will be cheaper and easier. Remember that porsche already did this exact same project, and it cost alot of time and money, and then they named the car the 951.

My personal opinion - If you have the time, and patiance, go for it. Just realize that your probably in for about 10k in cost, + labor + all the little **** that adds up while working on a car (a new tool here and there, oops broke a motor mount ect ect)

If you are going to go ahead and do it, what you need to consider is weather or not you want to turbo the existing engine, or if you want to just put a 951 engine in there. If you turbo the existing engine, you will need some sort of stand alone computer management system, because noone makes software for the kit, and you will want to lower the compression down to about 8:1 (or else you cant run more than probably 6 lbs of boost) and after that, and since you are in there, you are going to want to buy forged rods as well. ( theres 3 grand of the cost)

944 heads and 951 heads are the same, execpt that the 951 has ceramic coated exhaust valves, and If i've read correctly, they have the same camshaft as the 87+ n/a's do. Just for some referance, used 951 engines go for between 2 - 5K depending on who what where, and whats on it.

You'll need a compleatly new exhaust system, and you can buy something made for a turbo, or you can take it down to the local Mr. Tire and have them fabricate a system for you, dosent matter, whatever you decide. Dont forget about upgrading the radiator, that engine runs hotter and needs more water or else your going to crack the block.

Theres also only one reason why you want to turbo a car -> To go faster. If thats the case then you cant forget to upgrade the brakes. Ever had your brakes fade? Not a pretty site. Dont forget about the new transmission to handle the extra power. I believe that you might be able to get away with an S or an S2 transmission, but i dont know. It would be nice since the Turbo trans is geared just a little to tall for its own good.

Heres a collection of pictures that have poped up in previous turboing my n/a threads:

This is what will happen inside of a year (if you are lucky, shorter if not) to your trans if you dont upgrade:

This the entire list of parts that are different from a 944 to a 951, its actaully rather cool:

edit: Can anyone tell i've done research? I've never posted a single question on this topic, thats why we have the search button. search for "turbo swap" and make sure you have it look only in the 944 forums, and you will find alot of info, mostly what i told you, alot of arguing and flaming, and a little info I have yet to discover/forgot.

livewirevoodoo · livewirevoodoo's Garage

So... how do I turbocharge my NA?

seaboltman · 09-06-2005, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by livewirevoodoo
So... how do I turbocharge my NA?

are you mocking me?

ae1969 · 09-06-2005, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by seaboltman
are you mocking me?

yup he is officially mocking you.

x3m944 · 09-06-2005, 08:36 AM

Well you can get a BAE kit or make your own.

Basically on a stock NA engine assuming its up to the task, you can run about 6-8 lbs of boost, anything over 6 will need something like alchy and water injection to help prevent detonation.

You can use piggy back systems to add additional fuel, or use a 5th injector and a AIC, you can also usea FMU.

You would want a MSD 6 BTM or something like it to retard timing. If you are using a late model DME u can get a custom chip done which would help some.

To make more power -- not improve handling or stopping, just more power their are a few options:

Supercharger
Turbocharger
Higher compression
Stroke the motor (increase displacement)
Nitrous

Or some combo of the above.

Now I know this has been covered a lot and you will see the typical response is to buy a 951.

I support that if your building a 951 from a 944, on the other hand if you just want more power and the most from you NA, then pick what fits your budget.

Also what work can you do yourself?

If you are rebuilding the motor and all that, great you can build one that can handle forced induction/boost.

If you are not, well then you will probably want to change the head gasket and as long as your doing that, if the timing belt hasnt been done, now is a good time, water pump, etc... lots of stuff to do while your at it since you would have the head off. But I will leave that to u.

SEARCH REALLY IS YOUR FRIEND, I HAVE TALKED ABOUT THIS BEFORE.

x3m944 · 09-06-2005, 08:42 AM

Lets assume you cant figure out search.

Well to turbo you need a turbo and exhaust system, oil delivery to turbo and to get air from turbo to intake.

Well air from turbo to intake is easy, some hose and pipe.

Oil delivery, easy tap into exsisting system and into pan.

Exhaust -- two options, 951 style exhaust side. 951- means cross over pipe, stock 951 or made to oder. Exhaust side means a log style manifold.

Tie it all together, now figure out timing and fuel delivery.

If you can weld, you could probably do everything for a few grand, assuming you spend a reasobable amount on the turbo and an MSD box, not to mention 5th injector and controls. Maybe a MAF or MAS upgrade.

I have done it for well under 2k.

As for brakes and trans... their are ways to upgrade on the cheap. Trans can handle a fair amount of power before giving up the ghost, its always better to have the trans you want available, for when the stock unit gives up the ghost.

Moneyguy1 · 09-06-2005, 08:42 AM

The brakes are actually quite good on the NA compared to what other manufacturers offer. I would worry more about the drivetrain that seems to self destruct on a regular basis. The theory that the turbo (or conversion) goes "faster" has to be examined. It gets to speed faster, but the top speed capability of the exchange will never be realized in the real world. Yes, upgrade the braking system if it makes you feel safer but it is, for everyday use like pouring honey on a steak.

Ever wonder why a car with only a 150 HP engine can destroy a differential so easily?

x3m944 · 09-06-2005, 08:45 AM

As for a v8, well I would pick a 6 over an 8 or if it had to be an 8 and pushrod well then their are a few options. I being a mopar nut would go with the hemi.

If i wanted newer tech then its Northstar all the way. Of course I would boost anything I own if at all possible.

Now as far as boost limits to the NA, one way to fix that is changing the internals, the other is a much higher ocatane rating, like alchy or propane for a fuel.

livewirevoodoo · livewirevoodoo's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by seaboltman
are you mocking me?

Of course not.

I just wanted to add the question so the next time someone searches for a thread on how to turbo an NA they might find one before having to ask the question.

seaboltman · 09-06-2005, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by livewirevoodoo
Of course not.

I just wanted to add the question so the next time someone searches for a thread on how to turbo an NA they might find one before having to ask the question.

got it... maybe we should just make a thread, and then make a post inside it with nothing but the key words that people use for this stuff.

x3m944 · 09-06-2005, 11:56 AM

Yea that not a bad idea on the thread.

I can also write a how to guide with more details. I mean seriously I have run my 944 with boost for a long time. And its a NA engine. An 84 no less.

Its currently the test bed for my SC. Only problem I have ever had was the clutch (recent) and fuel delivery (issue with stock fuel lines). other non-boost related was the recent bushing issue and electrical.

"Everything goes better with Boost"