Please help ID engine

unclebilly · unclebilly's Garage

Hi Guys,

I need some help. My brother bought an engine for my old '87 944 (now his) from a semi local autowrecker. It looks as though the engine that they sent us is for a pre '87 car because the timing cover is different and there doesn't appear to be an automatic adjuster on the timing belt. Also many of the castings have '85' inside of a circle whereas my old car says '87' or '86' in those places.

I can't find a casting number or serial number on the engine - where should I bo looking? Will the casting number or serial number give me a clue as to the year of this engine?

I did find this number on the cylinder head - 944.104.303.8R.

We are wanting to send the engine back to the wrecker for a refund (+ maybe the $156 shipping costs) for them sending the wrong engine (if this indeed an '85 engine) - Dave was very specific that he wanted an 87 engine hence buying an engine 700 miles away as opposed to a local engine. If they don't play ball, he's already spoken to his credit card company about disputing the transaction.

What other difference are there between an '85 or '86 engine and an 87 engine?

AFJuvat · 10-11-2005, 06:30 PM

Except for the provision for an auto-tensioner, there really is no difference.

Are you sure the tensioner was just not removed?

AFJ

unclebilly · unclebilly's Garage

Yah, the timing belt and all of the hardware is still there. I noticed that the timing belt covers had different part numbers between the engines and the one in the car has an extra bolt near the seam.

The engine he bought doen't appear to have a spring loaded tensioner.

It makes you wonder about the true condition of the engine if they've obviously not been 100% honest about the year of the car it came from tho.

That link to 944 specs on the pelican website lists the 87 engine at 158 HP and the older cars at 150 HP, is this founded?

AaronM · 10-11-2005, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by unclebilly
Yah, the timing belt and all of the hardware is still there. I noticed that the timing belt covers had different part numbers between the engines and the one in the car has an extra bolt near the seam.

The engine he bought doen't appear to have a spring loaded tensioner.

It makes you wonder about the true condition of the engine if they've obviously not been 100% honest about the year of the car it came from tho.

That link to 944 specs on the pelican website lists the 87 engine at 158 HP and the older cars at 150 HP, is this founded?

There was a bump in compression ratio somewhere after '85, yes.

Aaron

dsalillas · 08:02 PM

In 87 there was a bump up in compression. I had a friend who had an 87 and we checked it out at the shop against my 85.5 and the compression was higher. I would send the engine back. If you asked for an 87 then that's what you should get.

Techno Duck · Techno Duck's Garage

I am almost 100% sure that the manual for my '87 944 lists the HP as 147 with 144 ftlbs of torque. I believe the compression ratio starts with a 9...i honestly cannot remember. Your '87 car 'should' come with a spring tensioner, though it dosent have to. My '87 924S did not hav a spring tensioner, my '87 944 did have one. I believe the addition of the spring tensioner was a mid year thing.

The '88 model cars came with a 10:something compression. and made i believe 153 or 157 hp, something like that. The '89 model 944's made something like 162 / 166 torque due to the 2.7L head.

unclebilly · unclebilly's Garage

Thanks guys.

AaronM · 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Techno Duck
I am almost 100% sure that the manual for my '87 944 lists the HP as 147 with 144 ftlbs of torque. I believe the compression ratio starts with a 9...i honestly cannot remember. Your '87 car 'should' come with a spring tensioner, though it dosent have to. My '87 924S did not hav a spring tensioner, my '87 944 did have one. I believe the addition of the spring tensioner was a mid year thing.

The '88 model cars came with a 10:something compression. and made i believe 153 or 157 hp, something like that. The '89 model 944's made something like 162 / 166 torque due to the 2.7L head.

The '87 924S has the '86 944 engine. It was not until '88 that the 924S had the same engine as the equivalent model-year 944. The '87 944 did indeed make more power than the '87 924S (on the order of like 5 hp, but still). So the '87 944 should have the spring tensioner while the '87 924S should not since the 924S has the early engine still.

Aaron

EDIT: Now that I think about it, it's possible that you got an '87 924S engine and that it was an honest mistake since they erroneously thought that the '87 924S and the '87 944 engines were identical.

Dougster · 10-12-2005, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Techno Duck
I am almost 100% sure that the manual for my '87 944 lists the HP as 147 with 144 ftlbs of torque. I believe the compression ratio starts with a 9...i honestly cannot remember. Your '87 car 'should' come with a spring tensioner, though it dosent have to. My '87 924S did not hav a spring tensioner, my '87 944 did have one. I believe the addition of the spring tensioner was a mid year thing.

The '88 model cars came with a 10:something compression. and made i believe 153 or 157 hp, something like that. The '89 model 944's made something like 162 / 166 torque due to the 2.7L head.

Yes, I thought it was also 88 that had a bump in HP before the larger 2.7 came out in 89.

Granite 944 · 10-12-2005, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by unclebilly
Will the casting number or serial number give me a clue as to the year of this engine?

Yes, the number stamped on the block will tell you what year that engine is. Below pic is from an '86 owners manual. The letter in that number will indicate what year the block was assembled.

E=1984
F=1985
G=1986
H=1987
J=1988
K=1989

It could be a number starting, ie, 41 or 43 (with letter E thru H) or 46 (with letter J or K). This is the block date. You could still have a different year head on it, and other accessories, for all thats worth.[/B][/QUOTE]

AaronM · 10-12-2005, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dougster
Yes, I thought it was also 88 that had a bump in HP before the larger 2.7 came out in 89.

I have always heard that there were two power bumps for the 2.5 litre. One in '88 and one sometime before. The '87 924S has the first 944 engine, which was not as powerful as the engine in the '87 944. In '88 the 944 engine power was bumped and the 924S got that engine as well (presumably to get rid of the extra cost from producing two nearly-but-not-quite-identical engines).

That's why the '87 924S is often said to have a "de-tuned" 944 engine. It's not really "de-tuned", just an older spec.

However, checking the comparison done in the October 1987 Road and Track, both the 924S and the 944 are listed as having the same engine.

Add another chapter in the wonderfully confusing book of "Which spec numbers are real for this Porsche".

pokey · 10-13-2005, 02:43 PM

Weren't the early '44s running 9.5:1 comp? The '87 924S has 9.7:1. So not entirely the same engine, yes no?

AaronM · 10-13-2005, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pokey
Weren't the early '44s running 9.5:1 comp? The '87 924S has 9.7:1. So not entirely the same engine, yes no?

I've given up on getting definitive answers.

Porsche did a _lot_ of "let's use up whatever parts we have laying around the warehouse" and that makes it hard to figure things out for certain. Plus, there's so much conflicting information out there.

Granite 944 · 10-14-2005, 08:09 PM

If ya ever get a chance to pick up a copy of a little book titled "Models Dimensions Tolerances", you'll find most of the info your looking for, I would think. The info I gave above, and what pokey spoke of, is in there with a whole bunch more information. Good, fairly reliable source of info. Printed in Germany for Porsche. Most definately more reliable than a lot stuff you hear on a board, and more info than what Car and Track are most likely giving. I'm no expert for sure with this, but I trust the info in this book. WKD 423 320 is the Part number for it. My copy, first edition, printed 5/90.