944s Performance Upgrades

[Marcone]

Hey... im new to this all.. i have had a 944s for about 7 mos now.. love the car..but i think it needs an overhaul... engine wise.. some seals and belts etc.. so im gonna take it out for the winter and rebuild it...

Does any one know of anything i could do to an 87 944s 16v engine while i have it out this winter??? Head swap.. Piston upgrade etc.. anything at all that you could pass my way???

Thank you

Marcone

[JivenJim]

Glad your liking the S.
How big is your wallet?

Here’s some of my very, ball park numbers

Cam reworks ~$1200 = 20 hp
Lighter/faster valve springs ~$1000 higher rev and works with Mod Cams
Over bore to a 3.4 Liter and sleeve ~25 HP $1800
12:1 CR JE Pistons Required for over bore ~ 15 HP $1200
Good Clutch and maybe lighter flywheel $1500 +
New Front and rear seal kits.
Gaskets for everything
Electronic ignition management $600-3000
and maybe knife edge the Crank if your going to race it. $700

Also a great time to replace all those vacuum lines and gas rubber lines.

Yep it's gonna cost a fortune to do right, which is why most people just give the car the min it needs.

Kinda surprised you didn't go right for the money shoot and ask how to turbo the 16V! Sorry for the ribbing. It's asked Alot around here.

If you’re just going basics:
Valve seats, guides, and new Piston Rings are standard rebuild stuff.

Hope this give you some ideas.
Do searches on any of these items and you’ll get lots more info.
Ask back if we can help clarify.

[rberry951]

jgp0rsche here got about 7hp out of a new exhaust, always a good upgrade...

[Techno Duck]

Install an oil pan baffle in the pan, cross drill and balance the crank. This will extend the life of the rod bearings if you ever start going to the track.

Theres a billion dollars worth of things you can do otherwise.

[jgp0rsche]

Originally posted by rberry951
jgp0rsche here got about 7hp out of a new exhaust, always a good upgrade...

Actually I gained 10WHP and 11WTQ with my exhaust.

mods.....

SFR 2.5" SS exhaust from the headers back - $1250

Friday I will be testing the 944SMAX V3 chip, my expectations are 10 - PEAK - WHP - ON SALE NOV 1st $175

Friday i will also be dyno testing a Vitesse Wasted Spark, my expectations are 3-5WHP throughout the power band - $850

Next week I will fit and test the FIRST SFR/LR HYBRID MAF conversion. It consists of an SFR MAF piping and LR MAF meter and 944SMAX MAF software. expectations are 8+WHP plus increased throttle response. - approx $600

This dyno chart is from last thursday... 155WHP 149WTQ



I hope to be around 175WHP after the maf conversion.

Once those items are installed, tested, and tuned, the next mods will be SFR ST1 headers ($899) and head work/cams. I have an extra 944S head I will be playing with. If anyone has seen an S head they would know the intake ports are HUGE. I want to minimize OVERRALL flow numbers and MAXIMIZE FLOW VELOCITY.
The headwork will be a little further down the road.


***EDIT*** The dyno chart reflects MY 944S with the SFR exhaust and stock chip(RED), and then the 944SMAX V2 chip. The 944SMAX chip has been under development in my car. The first dyno I used was not very good. I didn't like it. This Dyno Dynamics Dyno is a trusted dyno. So the V2 chip was really like the V1 chip because Russell still wasn't able to see anything that he could make changes on. However this chart is VERY readable, and he has made the proper adjustments and I believe the results will surprise MANY people. I have been driving with the V3 chip since Saturday and can say the dips in the early to mid 3000s and the early 4000s seem to be non existent, and makes power all the way to redline.

[vanwyk4257]

Will these chips be available soon? I may be interested in one of them for my '87 S.

[jgp0rsche]

Originally posted by vanwyk4257
Will these chips be available soon? I may be interested in one of them for my '87 S.

if you read my post, it CLEARLY says NOV 1st.

[Dave L]

Carefull, thats a potential customer there,

Why not try;

Thanks for your interest in our chip, we are hoping to complete testing soon and have them on the market for November 1st.

[Eldorado]

customer - "how much is a big mac?"
employee - "cant you read the menu?"

[vanwyk4257]

Originally posted by jgp0rsche
if you read my post, it CLEARLY says NOV 1st.

edit, thanks to Eldorado for pointing out where the date was, I must be losing my eyesight.

That being said, I will follow the development of these chips with interest.

[Eldorado]

Originally posted by vanwyk4257
I just skimmed through your post again and I can't pick out the date that was so CLEARLY posted. I'm sorry for wasting your time with my interest in your product.

above the pic of the dyno.

[vanwyk4257]

AAAAhhhh, I see it now, I guess I need to get my eyes checked.

Looks like a good price for the product, I'll definitely be following the development with interest. I guess I shouldn't read these posts while I'm at the office and I'm distracted by my real work!

[rberry951]

Hello all, I'm Russell, the developer of the chips. Actually the official release date is Nov 1. The last beta version I sent jgp0rsche looks like it will be the final version. I'm just waiting for a new dyno plot from him with it. The dyno above was the prior version. The pre-release version he has right now is an attempt to get rid of the dead spots you see on the dyno that exist in both the stock chips and mine. Partly the nature of the engine, but he reported back the in the pre-release version they 'feel' like they are gone and top end power feels like an S2.

If the dyno this week proves that to be fact then I will go ahead and release this version. You will be able to purchase them directly from our website at http://www.maxhpkit.com.

You may also contact me directly if you anyone has any questions about any of our products at rberry951@maxhpkit.com

Regards,
Russell

[jgp0rsche]

Didn't mean to sound like an ass. I'm @ work as well. Can you tell how that's going?

[vanwyk4257]

Sounds great. Keep us posted if the release date happens on November 1st, I'll take any power increase I can get right now. I want to hound all my buddies in their 911's next year on the DE circuit!
It should help that my car is a former race car so it's already got all the suspension goodies.

jgp0rsche, no harm no foul, I've had many of those kind of days myself.

[Marcone]

Ok.. heres the deal.. i was a BMW guy till i got this car.... Built a Crazy ass stroker out of a 325is 12v 2.5L 6cyl engine.. i knew it inside and out.. now i have a porsche 4cyl 2.5L 16v Kindof a new beast for me...

As far as bad days go..... after being hit in the front and having the front end in for repainting ... got the car out of the paint shop.. only to find they changed the color of the WHOLE car... so thats gonna have to be re done... then.... pop goes the clutch cylinder on my way home... needless to say..the engine is coming out now to keep my peace of mind on anything that may go wrong...

Who knows this "grenade' of an engine" as one shop put it about the 16v 944.... i have been told that theyre not good for upgrades...

what cams would be recommended , what valves, etc what kind of things should i do to this otherwise stock car... i have till march now to figure out how to take it apart and put it back to gether. I know im gonna upgrade things..but what matches with what in these cars.. does anyone know waht a good crank to put in with stock pistons to make a stroker? or is that even possible with these cars.. or should i get some different pistons and keep the orig crank.. etc.. things like that... what configurations work with these engines.....

To the very helpful post above... iknow that the "turbo a 16V" idea is absolutely rediculous because of the compression ... but... does any one have specifics on things to upgrade....

I had a BMW guru..then i turned into one..cause i figured out what matched up with what in that specific engine configuration to make the best possible bang for the buck engine...but this one.. i would probably just pick an expencive cam..and hope it was a good one..haha...

Please help guide the blind.....

if anyone knows of any goodies that go .. please let me know!

Marcone

[jgp0rsche]

I believe a search is definitely in order. no one else here will provide you with the kind of information I have provided because their isn't anything else out there, PERIOD. All you have is a bunch of guys who say Porsche did everything right the first time.......BS! They will also tell you to not waste your money on this or that because it doesn't work, but they themselves have never tried it. I decided awhile ago what I wanted to do. Now I am doing it. That's the only way to see what works. Trial and Error. Many of your questions can be answered by doing a search (what crank to use for a stroker? S2 crank), as far as grenading this engine, you really can't unless you don't do your tiing belt, and/or neglect the cam chain tensioner. My car has 165K miles. Still runs like a champ. Also, turbocharging it is really not out of the question, again do a search on the 944s head design. I have toyed with the idea before, BUT I already have a turbo. I want this to be different.

[JivenJim]

Good Info JG.

Marcon,

I’m not a builder so I can’t advise on how to do these mods. I am in long rebuild using / having used most of these items, but I’m No expert.

I would strongly consider talking with someone like John Milledge http://www.jmengines.com/index.htm. He’s built some fun engines. Better yet, have him build the whole thing and go grab a beer and watch a game!
Broad Foot Racing in Florida use to do a lot of Engine work, but I don’t know if they’re still around?
Also don’t take his, mine, or anyone’s word as gospel. Get several opinions as it sounds like your doing.

But if you don’t take the easy way out…

Here’s a previous post that had some engine upgrades for a 2.5bottom end.. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-924-944-968-technical-forum/298188-bottom-end-upgrade-opinions.html#post2757682


Options for the 944S2:

Sell the 16V Head and put on a Turbo 8V and full Turbo stuff including Computer
(DME + KLR). Water and Oil passages need slight machine shop mod to fit. DME. Buy a junked Car and rape and pillage what you need from exhaust to Intercooler. Price $3000+??

Or you could maybe find a 968 Head with Vario Cam (like V-tech) + DME and instant 30HP

Or do a pro Turbo Conversions
http://www.powerhaus.com/

Add a supercharge Kit from someone such as Speed Force Racing (SFR) about 100 hp and $6000. http://www.speedforceracing.com/productsporsche_engines.php

Bore the 3.0L to a 3.4L and add those higher CR pistons. Say Custom made CP’s at 108mm. If you go above say, 11.5 CR you will need to use only Race gas or ping ping boom. The Knock sensor will retard the timing a bit to compensate some for lower Octane fuel. Custom piston ring Set, Custom Copper Gasket. From what I’ve gather Stroking this Engine is a lot of work for Min results. I was told this because the way the position of Wrist Pin. Also the clearance of the Connecting Rod on the bottom of the block. They can do a staggered Crank Grind where is effetely positions it’s center further from the center of Crank, thus increasing Stroke. But all the stroker options are a lot of expense for little result.

Lindsey Racing could do an extrude porting of your intake to increase flow velocity + valve work.

R & D Springs (Don) Very knowledgeable, Consults for Lindsey Racing among others:
www.rdvalvespring.com
Custom Springs to match new Cam Grinds and light weight Retainers = faster rev. Also he makes Solid Lifters that are much lighter and better for high RPM’s
17710 Bango Ave
Hesperia, CA 92345
760) 948-4698

Head Sleeves, Wrist Pins and Pistons, Rings…
Circle Performance (John) 508) 580-5844
http://www.cppistons.com/Catalog.htm

Camshaft Re-Grinds for Bigger , faster Lift, but rougher idle.
http://www.webcamshafts.com/

This stuff is not experimental! Each vendors has catalogs with Porsche 944,951,S2, & 968’s parts and specs. I had to dig to find these guys thoe.
Probably cause it’s all expensive.

Add a chip, electronic Air/fuel management and exhaust.

[Marcone]

thanks for the info man.. i really appreciate it... ive looked into a knifed edge crank..etc... found one... not sure if im gonna buy it...
the 968 head idea seems cool.. maybe a route to take...

funny you mentionned the turbo idea.. some one says they have a turbo kit for this car.. bolt on.. should i be scared?

Marcone

[will944]

Man....all this S talk makes me want to pick one up as a 'fun' daily driver option (instead of the slow A6).

Nice numbers with the exhaust!! I'm also interested in what comes with the chips.