The idea behind the project

[Marcone]

This is a new thread as recommended to describe the project at hand.

Take engine out.

Take engine apart.

Get head work done.
-Put new parts as needed(bigger/stronger valves if necessary?)
-New tensioner and chain
-New Rockers, guides and seals(bigger cam too? necessary?)
-Port and polish
(any other tips?)

Bottom end work
-Verify integrity(no leaks and is pretty solid, but ill check anyways)
-Dip and clean
-New bearings and seals
-New Oilpump
-Get pistons shaved/machined for lower compression (9.x:1)(or use turbo ones 8.x:1, but i would rather use the higher compression ones and lower it a bit. )
-Knife edge Crank
-New piston rings etc
-New waterpump and all that replaceable normal stuff(timing etc)
(anything else i should replace/rework? New rods?)

Put engine back together with new gaskets and seals

Put engine back to gether with turbo(K26?)

Put new flywheel and Clutch(performance)

Put head back together with new manifolds(Exhaust)

Put new fuel system(bigger 55lb injectors, Adjustable regulator)

Get management system for new system(can the old computer have a chip made to do this? or do i need a seperate system for it? maybe a turbo computer from a 951? or is that a tuning nightmare?)

Get custom Exhaust made

Put engine Back in

Hope it starts

Drive around the country and visit every one on this message board(in record time with my turbo 16v s) and have the shot with you all that i will be owed for actually doing this(with a reasonable cost )

If ive forgotten anything... please let me know... if there is anything to comment on ... again.... post...

Marcone
www.marconemusic.com

[nynor]

you've forgotten the cost...

[Marcone]

im estimating 3-4 grand MAX.... all in



Marcone
www.marconemusic.com

[nynor]

famous last words.

[Marcone]

Ive done it before with the bmw....

already done some pricing... have a good distributor with good prices.

IM GONNA WIN hahaha

ill post all my bills too once theyre in and paid.... then we'll see i guess..

Hahaha

Marcone
www.marconemusic.com

[Eldorado]

you should really talk to steve on this board... find out how much he's spent on his car and go from there..
minus, of course, the supercharger he never got... i'm sure with what you're trying to accomplish, it'll cost a lot more than 3k.

[jgp0rsche]

You won't need to port the head. Just have the intake and exhaust ports polished. I don't know if you have ever seen the intake ports on an S head, but their basically isn't anywhere to port. Also, most people who go the turbo route (who have money anyways) don't port, the completely redo in the intake ports and lower some of the actual flow and maximize flow velocity.

so like I said, just polish the ports. Also, swapping to 968 intake valves would also help. They are slightly larger.

as far as a turbo goes, if I were doing this project and spending this kind of money I wouldn't use such a small turbo. You should go for at least a K27-8 or equivalent (Lindsey Racing super48 turbo), or maybe a 60-1 HiFi turbo.

for your exhaust maniolds, find a used 951 set with the crossover. You'll just have to cut off the exhaust manifold flanges and weld on ones that would match the 16v head. That way you could use a reguler 951 exhaust.

For engine management, I would stick with the stock 944S dme. The 16V dme's are much more efficient as they have the 2 knock sensors compared to 1 on the 951 and 944n/a. Also, if you were to swap to a 951 dme and klr, you would have no way to accept input for the hall sensor because you would have to swap to a 951 engine harness. So use the 944S dme, and get a Perfect Power SMT-6. It can control timing and fuel and whatever use you want it to. Price is dependant on where you buy it. But from $450-$600 is the norm.

One thing you have overlooked is the 944S tranny. It will not hold up to the kind of power this engine will create. The 944S tranny is stronger than a 944n/a's but not by much. An S2 tranny would be a direct swap and would be able to handle the extra power.

[Marcone]

Very detailed answer...Thank you...
So... i was pricing the whole thing depending on getting the exhaust manifolds and injectors and turbo and regulator for 1400 dollars..the rest on bits and pieces.

but youre saying the turbo is too small?? Ill have to re-do my budget... may just buy that stuff anyways and sell it off on ebay or soemthing to make up a few bucks.... OR.. can i use that turbo at first and then change it? or is that not possible due to piping/mounting etc?

Do you know what amount to shave those pistons? is that even an option? OH ...and the exhaust valves... do they need to be changed?

I know where i can find an S2 tranny even an engine over here ... but they guy is a dick... i would rather not give him a penny... so ill search.

What kind of power am i to expect? Does anyone even know?

Thanks for all the help along the way.

Marcone
www.marconemusic.com

[JivenJim]

Marcone,

Is this a movie? Do you really want us to suspend believe for the duration of the show.
Could you show us how you plan to Fab Custom Exhaust w/Crossover, Port manifold, Valve Seats, Valve Guides, stronger Valve Springs, Buy new Clutch/pressure plate, Throw out Bearing, Rod Bearings, Main Bearings, Balance Shaft Bearings, Race Seals, Water Pump, Oil Pump Gear race, standard Gaskets, New Turbo, Adjustable Fuel Reg, New Fuel Dampeners, F/A management new Bosh Injectors, Boost Gauge, Turbo Bracket, new Engine mounts, Better Tranny, new Hoses, New Fuel Lines, Bigger Brakes bigger Rotors,, New brake pads, Probably some Axle Bearings, Brake Fluid, Coolant, Power Steering Fluid, 9CR Pistons, Piston Ring Set, New Connecting Rods, New Connecting Rod bolts, New Head Gasket, New Muffler, New Catalytic converter, Exhaust Grommets, Maybe Resonator, Maybe New CV Axles or Rebuild, Bigger Radiator, Intercooler, Blow of Valve, New Vacuum Lines, Sparks Plugs, Distributor, Rotor, Spark plug Wires, Radiator Fan Switch, water pump Thermostat, fuel filter, oil filter, and I must be forgetting a few things, but this is 12K++ without suspension work.

Please our new friend either come to reality or show us your Magic show.
We want you to achieve your goal. But 3-4K for this project and you’re wasting our time.
Sorry to be a downer.

[jgp0rsche]

I forgot to mention, you will also need some forged rods. The stock 944S cast rods will NOT hold up in a high compression/high boost situation.

Don't get me wrong a K26/6 or /8 turbo will make some decent power, but it just seems that if you are spending the money, you might as well, buy a larger turbo. But you can get the conversion done now, save money and then swap later.

Don't worry about the 944S exhaust valves, like I have mentioned before the stock head flows OVER 300CFM.

No one can guesstimate your power. as you are still unsure of what comp pistons too run, boost, and turbo size. One thing to think about, if you plan on running a stock turbo, DO NOT run higher comp pistons. ESPECIALLY with a K26/6 turbo, too much back pressure.

I have a 951 short block with turbo, turbo mount, crossover pipe, and down pipe. PM me if you are interested.

[Marcone]

Jiven...

Its not magic... Like ive mentionned a Million times before.. im getting most of the parts (the bulk of the stuff) for 1400 dollars. I find its safe to say 2600 will cover the rest of the parts. From what ive priced, i can get it done. ill be good..

Look at this.
I already have my water pump, timing kit, belts, hoses. (only spent 250)

For the purposes of this project ive already priced this stuff out:

1400 Pistons, rods turbo, piping, mount, blowoff, injectors, manifolds, pressure regulator
500 Machine work (head adjustment, Crank shaving)
400 Gaskets and seals(top to bottom)
100 Intake valves (used)
200 Piston Rings
200 Bearing Kit(engine)
950 Clutch Kit(With bearings bolts Flywheel Plate cylinder)
100 Motor Mounts

Total: 3850

Ill admit i didnt budget the exhaust system which will be 500 dollars custom made (already priced it) and the management system jg was talking bout but hey add another 500 for that and we're at 4850 Not too far off.

like i said as well... i never intended on changing the tranny but if i absolutely have to i found a good one for 400 dollars, Suspension is MINT in my car. Brakes are Very good as well.

My budget was for the ENGINE which i am on track for ... even if i go to 5g's who cares... 6g's Still its ONLY MONEY and its alot of fun... would you be upset at spending even 6g's and having the car you wanted? Im not wasting anyones time..cause im not declining your input or ideas... im taking them harnessing them and readjusting my budget accordingly. I think you guys are just seeing the word PORSCHE and seeing $$$... be clever about it .... source the parts out and find some one who can get them at a better price than where ever youre pricing. Like buying a computer at BEST BUY.... you can get one with the same parts and even better quality at another store... just cause your shops have big names doesnt mean theyre the ONLY store to shop... bigger name = bigger price.... source things out.

If you do the math .. with the exhaust that i was getting anyways 4350.00. The only thing that really put me over my budget was the management system.... but ive readjusted for that...

This is not an impossibility... and is not as BIG as you think. it may seem scary...but its only mechanics, time and patience.

Marcone
www.marconemusic.com

[nynor]

at 6K you are in the neighborhood of buying a 951 anyway. then, a mere investment for a better wastegate and a set of 951Max chips and you are well on your way to a reliable 300HP.

this is it, i am not responding to another post along the lines of 'turbo an NA' ever again. i am done, through, finished.

[Marcone]

Anyone can pop a turbo engine in... dont you guys ever dream of being original?

The point isnt having a turbo engine... its having a turbo engine that no one else has.

at 6K buying a turbo engine.. will still put me in the refurbish and renew situation..cause it will definitely be used... i want it to be NEW ... at 6k and new tell me where im going wrong?

Marcone
www.marconemusic.com

[nynor]

i meant the whole damn car for 6K!!!

[Eldorado]

from my short experience on this board, those who spend more time talking about it than doing it, combined with those who say "it's only money" never get the projects done...

I hope I'm proven wrong... best of luck to you.

[Marcone]

Now Now i just bought this car... It was very strong and in good condition, feels great, had tons of life left and the engine only had 180k Kilometres.

But i want to build one, so i know exactly when everything is due(est'd time)... most of you have established the lifetime and expectancy of the parts and such.... i want to start everything at day zero... so i get no issues at bad times. I want to reset the service record.... so i start it and do it right. haha.

Just so you know, I want to build an engine... so i will build an engine i hope we can get over that part. Its gonna be done.

Now that we have established what i need for this project... I would like some help with the technical part(for real this time )

I need to know if the pistons can be shaved down from 10.x:1 to 9.x:1 Or will i be stuck with the Turbo 8.x:1 pistons that im getting... I do not want to buy pistons ive got two sets, one WILL work.. but i woudl rather have the other...AND... Is a lightened weight Crank and a light weigh fly wheel TOO MUCH? I have heard it will be to hard to shift properly..adn would possibly die every time you drop out of gear and go neutral?
I would like it if you could answer with "when i did that i had to .... " or " i saw one like that and they had to..." type of answers to keep from myths or beliefs, just facts please thanks!

I dont mean to be demeaning, not trying to be either.. just my sense of humour. A little dry but always there. Spent too much time in the UK. Ha Ha

But anyways.. a little help will be appreciated... Ill start a new thread if need be

Marcone
www.marconemusic.com

[jgp0rsche]

you don't need a custom exhaust if you are using a stock crossover/header system.

[Zero10]

You aren't accounting for the condition of the cylinder walls.
Measure them for out-of-round and taper. I bet you will find that you are past the wear limit.

No point in doing a build-up like this with worn out bores.

[Marcone]

taper at 180k Kilometres?( 105k Miles?)

[Zero10]

Yeah, in my 951, the bores were out of round by double the factory clearance at 63k miles.
Always always always measure the bores.