Why you should always follow torque specs!

[many944s]

In preparation for pulling an engine from a car, I noticed that there was an issue with the front of the cam tower...


Of course, once everything was taken off, there was an original (mostly rounded) hex screw holding the cam pulley in place. Behind that was the real story:


All three bolts that hold the front bearing assembly were loose enough to be removed my hand! The top one had even cut a nice groove into the back of the cam pulley:



I guess the moral of the story is: If your going to guess on a torque for a fastener, at least use some loc-tite

[Schumi]

Was the cam gear tight? The fact those were loose means the cam gear had been taken off before. I'm surprised it didn't loosen itself enough to cause the belt to edge off.

[JivenJim]

locite Blue thread lock is a good thing.

[Slam]

Brings up an interesting thought - why do these cars end up so poorly wrenched on by so many POs? Do skills on North American cars not translate well to Euro cars? Are people so broke/cheap they cut every corner available? Do folks just not care?

Are there not enough socks?

[1987944Sick]

Originally Posted by Slam

Brings up an interesting thought - why do these cars end up so poorly wrenched on by so many POs? Do skills on North American cars not translate well to Euro cars? Are people so broke/cheap they cut every corner available? Do folks just not care?

Are there not enough socks?

tools cost money

[many944s]

Schumi-the cam bolt was tight, but it was obviously a re-used bolt I am starting to figure out why someone else was in there.... a little less than half of the woodruff key is sheared off (the part that engages the drive "nut" that holds the rotor), the key was rotated 180 degrees so the sheared part was under the pulley... didn't make much difference as the drive nut is completely hosed! Good thing this motor is coming out and a fresh one going in! God only knows what else was half-@ssed?

[Schumi]

Yep- I found woodruff key failure on mine as well- most likely due to improper torquing of the main crank bolt after belt replacement. The part of the key the balance shaft gear resides on was worn and the balance shaft gear was wallowed to where it was sitting at about 10 degrees off time. That would definitely make the motor feel like it was running rough..

[bearone2]

Originally Posted by many944s

Schumi-the cam bolt was tight, but it was obviously a re-used bolt I am starting to figure out why someone else was in there.... a little less than half of the woodruff key is sheared off (the part that engages the drive "nut" that holds the rotor), the key was rotated 180 degrees so the sheared part was under the pulley... didn't make much difference as the drive nut is completely hosed! Good thing this motor is coming out and a fresh one going in! God only knows what else was half-@ssed?

you left a few things out.
are you doing a ppi or did the car need to be towed in because of breakdown for a customer.

a personal vehicle or customers. is this a previous customer?
did the customer, you or another shop work on the car previously.

[many944s]

I actually don't know the previous owner or mechanic...
The car was originally purchased for parts, and I obtained it to turn into a spec race car.

[bearone2]

you bought it for a spec car and someone else had probably removed/started to remove what they wanted or didn't know what they were doing and sold/abandoned it.

you probably got it for a song and you'll no doubt go thru everything so why the relevance of proper torquing when you don't know any history?

[many944s]

Hmm...
Why the shi!!y tone?

I was simply pointing out why a fastener should be properly torqued, or loc-tite used. since these bolts are in a place that is not easily accessible, I wanted to point out to everyone that they appearently have a tendancy to walk out. I wasn't complaining, or getting upset.

Since the car was sold as running with an oil leak, I thought the information may be of interest to someone in the future before they came all the way out, trashing the cam tower, cam, head, valves, pistons, etc....

Go have a Guiness and relax.

-Nick

[nynor]

bear is just upset because gas prices are still close to $3.00/gallon in hawaii.

[many944s]

Oh... Well that I can understand

[speedracing944]

Nice find.

Speedy

[Wolf1]

Originally Posted by Slam

Brings up an interesting thought - why do these cars end up so poorly wrenched on by so many POs? Do skills on North American cars not translate well to Euro cars? Are people so broke/cheap they cut every corner available? Do folks just not care?

Are there not enough socks?

Yes, there appears to be a shortage of socks lately. Speaking of Juvy.....where is he? I havent heard from him in quite awhile. Mike?, Alex? you still out there?

[Sterling Doc]

Originally Posted by bearone2

you bought it for a spec car and someone else had probably removed/started to remove what they wanted or didn't know what they were doing and sold/abandoned it.

you probably got it for a song and you'll no doubt go thru everything so why the relevance of proper torquing when you don't know any history?

Now for the real story...

This is how the racing network/world works:

Ray & I bought the car for parts and decent wheels it had on it.

Nick has a good motor he's building but no chassis

Nick puts good motor into said chassis and Ray & I get back parts we need.

Everyone gets what they need at minimal cost.

Nick comes racing with us (next year)!

Life is good .

I drove the car - the motor actually felt pretty good, suprisingly, though it had a big oil leak.

None of us were under any illusions that this was a pampered example of a 944. But it is one the is lucky enough to get a new lease on life as a 944 Spec race car

It is interesting that a motor so close to disaster can run pretty darn well. Buyer beware! I think that was part of Nick's point here (that & be careful when putting these things together!). Thanks for the interesting story, Nick!

[Schumi]

I have seen so much lately when it comes to these cars and others. It's really sad IMO to see some cars get parted or thrown by the wayside because of some small problems. Also, there are a lot of cars that are cosmetically perfect with blown motors and at the same time cars that are wrecked or beat to hell with perfect drivetrain.

In some ways I believe most engines are more durable than we think. On a separate note, we got done earlier this year racing the 2008 formula car the team I work with campaigns every year. It had raced in 3 international events and also made it to SCCA nationals (had an upright failure there unfortunately however). The car is meant to be the ultimate time trails/autocross car (and is currently hailed as being the fastest Formula SAE Autocross car in the world, winning two international autocross competitions). It is not meant to run more than 22km stints at a time and has wear items that must be replaced every 10 hours of runtime. However, even with it's super strung race motor at 14.5:1 compression, making over 140HP/litre, the motor was pulled after it's season and inspected. Every component, seal, and bearing as perfectly in spec. Leakdown even exceeded factory specifications. The only problem was some very worn gear dogs in the sequential 6 speed due to a pneumatic clutch failure during a driver change in an endurance event that forced the 2nd driver to grind the gear into place to launch the car.

Just a little food for though. When things are done properly they can last a very, very long time.

[bearone2]

Originally Posted by nynor

bear is just upset because gas prices are still close to $3.00/gallon in hawaii.

it's still better wx year round than where you live.

i'm in shorts every day.

i make enuff in retirement that $5/gal gas isn't the end of the world.

many944s:
i think most folks are aware of the importance of accurate torquing.
no way to know in your op that the car was running or any history.

[nynor]

hah! a little defensive there, bear? maybe i like the weather here. i like it in hawaii, too. i also like to snowboard. congrats on your retirement.

don't forget to not overtorque yourself.

[bearone2]

thx, 500ftlbs min.

i grew up in denver, lived in ny and the mass/nh area so i did my time in cold wx.