Want to convert to A/C 134A ? Any Ideas??

[thoen]

I found one post from 2001....

I want to changeover to the newer refrigerant 134A in my 1983's AC system. My compressor seems to be working (not sure?) but am not getting cold air at this time....therefore, i would want to changeover.
1. How do I test the compressor?
2. if the compressor is bad, what kind should I replace it with?
3. 944 online has a complete kit for $500. incl. compressor, dryer and 134A attachments. has anyone found a less expensive way of doing it?

any thoughts or experience would be greatly appreciated. It is still cool up here in New York but that will change real soon!

[John_AZ]

The AC pros will help you. FR Wilk under AC R134 has the official Porsche info:
http://www.the944.com/

The 944Online kit is the best I have found if your compressor is bad.

GL
John_AZ

[onZedge]

When my A/C stopped blowing cold air I thought the worst. About a year later, I tried some Freeze 12 (R-12 system compatable substitute) on a dare. My A/C has been blowing cold air for the second summer in a row with no recharge since then. I figure I have saved myself hundreds of dollars...

...at least for now!!

Freeze-12 is less than $20 a can (Westwood Auto Parts and probably others). R-12 is not easily (if at all) obtainable in the USA.

[TexasBlake]

Im actually in the middle of installing my 944 online kit right now. Everything is going great but it looks like you have to grind off one of the lobes for clearence. Instructions are TERRIBLE. Mislabeled stuff, missing o-rings, poor clarification.

I should have a write up on my www.texasblake.com page in a couple days. I wont have filling the system up yet because my engine is still not running yet.

[nightheart]

If your changing over an early 944 compressor, than you need to run a shorter alternator belt and use a 90 degree adapter for the low side port.

[TexasBlake]

Originally Posted by nightheart

If your changing over an early 944 compressor, than you need to run a shorter alternator belt and use a 90 degree adapter for the low side port.

Its on my 86 Turbo. It looks like the 90* pipe/nipple/barbed fitting from the low side will work. I plan on getting another belt cause this one doesnt have enough rows.

Only problem with the kit is that its missing one hose clamp that i cant find locally. I'll have to call a real auto parts store tomorrow, the VatoZone just stares at me with my mouth open whenever I ask for something.

[mattdavis11]

if it's the low side clamp (fat hose/line), just use a generic hose clamp.

[TexasBlake]

Originally Posted by mattdavis11

if it's the low side clamp (fat hose/line), just use a generic hose clamp.

Yeah, I've thought about that. I called an ASE Master Tech and he told me to find one with a barb. He said he could get me a CarQuest part number tomorrow at work, so if I dont get one by tomorrow I'll just use a regular hose clamp.

[mattdavis11]

The 6E171 is a good compressor, much better than sanden, IMHO. I actually replaced a sanden the other day on a Jetta, and my suspicion was confirmed that the cheap selling price is an excellent indicator of the quality. I can buy them all day at $125, but don't.

I would recommend having the front seal replaced if it leaks, and if so, you might as well replace the clutch too. Get the shorter belt (search me and a/c belt, you'll find the napa #) and the 90 fitting.

Out side of that, drain the compressor of all the oil, flush the lines, being sure to back flush the expansion valve, replace the drier, fill it up with pag 46 (6 oz I believe), vacuum it down and charge to 80% of the recommended charge for R12, which would be 2.09 lbs (R12).

[mattdavis11]

Originally Posted by TexasBlake

Yeah, I've thought about that. I called an ASE Master Tech and he told me to find one with a barb. He said he could get me a CarQuest part number tomorrow at work, so if I dont get one by tomorrow I'll just use a regular hose clamp.

I can mail you one, but I really don't think it's going to make much of a difference. It's only going to see 100 lbs of pressure at most, and that's when the system is off.

I know you love the sanden units, so just ignore my bashing if you can.

[TexasBlake]

Originally Posted by mattdavis11

I can mail you one, but I really don't think it's going to make much of a difference. It's only going to see 100 lbs of pressure at most, and that's when the system is off.

I know you love the sanden units, so just ignore my bashing if you can.

Honestly, what is the barb supposed to accomplish if it doesnt sit down on the hose. Iwas told it goes down the very edge o the hose against the nipple....

[thoen]

getting back to my original post... four fine questions for four fellow 944s.


1. can i just buy any rebuilt and a new dryer and adapters and use the new refrigerant?

2. does freeze 12 connect directly to my current adapters?

3. the 944online kit sounds like it is missing too much for them to charge $500...right?

4. What do i need in total for the changeover?

[mattdavis11]

1) Yes, but you will want to flush all of the old oil out of the lines if you switch to 134a. It is cheaper to rebuild it instead of buying a rebuilt, I have no idea why. If you would like, send it to me and I'll take care of it for cheap.

2) Freeze 12 uses the same can tap as an R12 screw on. If your can tap punctures the side of the can and not the top, it won't work, the freeze 12 can is slimmer.

3) If I wanted a Sanden compressor and a few extra bits and pieces, I could round all the stuff up for under $200 easily. I sell a/c parts though, so it's not really fair to say George is charging too much.

4) This is what I did. I bought a lowside 90 fitting from R12 to 134, I bought a 1 inch shorter belt, I rebuilt my compressor ie. case seal and clutch, I never did change the drier, and I don't think I flushed the lines either. I know better on the last two now, but it was years ago and has been trouble free.

Realistically you could get a lowside fitting and pop a couple of cans into it. You are going to have to find your leaks somehow, and most people that know no better use dyed freon. Others will use nitrogen or compressed air, inject it into the system and use soapy water in a spray bottle to find leaks.

[KDXrider]

Is it actually required that you swap the compressor?
That's a big ticket item I would like to avoid having to buy if at all possible...

[KDXrider]

I've been told this is from Porsche so I'm confused

P.S. this is for an early 944

[TexasBlake]

Originally Posted by KDXrider

Is it actually required that you swap the compressor?
That's a big ticket item I would like to avoid having to buy if at all possible...

It's not required to swap compressors, you can use the stock Nippondenso with R-134a. You do need to put on a new drier though. You also need to use ESTER oil. ESTER oil works with both R-134a and R-12.

I bought my car with no workign a/c. My clutch solenoid did not work. For the price of the clutch solenoid, I'd rather buy a new/rebuilt compresor since I had no idea if my was leaking or anything. Since I was buying a new compressor, I went with the Sanden update kit.

[TexasBlake]

Originally Posted by thoen

3. the 944online kit sounds like it is missing too much for them to charge $500...right?

It's missing maybe $5 worth of stuff. I'll let Ian know, it could have just been my kit. Since the only missing parts are just o-rings and a hose clamp, he may even add them to the kit (if they were supposed to be there).

As far as the instructions for the 944-Online kit being poor, most likely Ian will use my writeup as new instructions just like he did on the ball joint kit. It doesn't look like 944-Online made the current instructions.

As far as the price, do keep in mind that this does come with a NEW compressor, not rebuilt. It's also made in Japan not ching chong China.

[thoen]

You are 100% right, i just checked. It is a new compressor from 944online. the price is 100% JUST!!'
I thought it was rebuilt.
ernest

[KDXrider]

So I assume the new compressor is just better built to hold the higher pressures of a R134 system?

What are the chances that the stock compressor will fail?

[TexasBlake]

Originally Posted by KDXrider

So I assume the new compressor is just better built to hold the higher pressures of a R134 system?

What are the chances that the stock compressor will fail?

It's not so much the compressor internals failing, it's more so that it will begin to leak. Or, you can be like me and have a dead solenoid/clutch switch/whatever you wanna call it. Those are over $100. It wasn't worth it to spend $100 on one part when others can be bad. You have to remember these cars are 25 years old. 25 year old R-12 compressor now gets more pressure, you really risk blowing out a seal. R-134a molecules are much smaller. I guess you could compare switching from R-12 to R-134a (on the stock 25 year old compressor) to switching from dino to synthetic motor oil at 250,000 miles.

You could also argue that running R-134a in the stock Nippondenso puts a bigger load on the engine and does not handle capacity near as well.

If you order the kit from 944 Online, you might want to ask Ian if you can get a discount if you send in your old Nippondenso. He told me he needs cores. I guess some of his remanufactured unit cores end up being no good or maybe he just likes having more spare parts for the rebuilds?