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Going faster all the time
 
Litesonic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
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difficulty of returning to stock chips?

Hello.

My plot is thickening.

I purchased (gave money, received a signed title) for an 86 turbo. She has major smog issues and I can't officially title her until that is dealt with.

I pre-tested (after replacing all of the small vac lines and O2 sensor) and found out she was WAY high on HC and CO output. I was told that she has an aftermarket Weltmeister chip on board by the PO. And I am also suspicious of the Cat Conv., though these levels are too high for a Cat to matter (according to the tech).

So, I have paid for a set of stock chips to be sent my way from another pelicanite. I pulled the DME and Knock unit tonight and I discover that the PO last year decided to have work done on it. So I have a sticker from an outfit in FL called "Specialized ECU repair" This appears to be a remanufactured DME. I am nervous to open it up, but I need to get it back to stock.

Any thoughts?

I have contacted them to find out what was done (hopefully they reply) and to see if they can make it "stock" again.

A) if the chips are easy to "pop in" I am willing to break the "warranty" sticker on the case.

B) I may just buy a stock remanu unit to plug in for the smog. I hate spending so much for a "temporary" situation.

Thanks in advance, if only to have a place to vent.

Old 06-26-2010, 10:32 PM
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Just thinking out loud
 
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Leave California?
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Old 06-26-2010, 10:43 PM
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ha ha, great answer. Not exactly helpful, but thanks, I needed the humor.
Old 06-27-2010, 06:16 AM
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All Spooled Up
 
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If I'm not mistaken, weltmiester advertizes their chips as being 100% california emissions compatible. You need to check if the DME is going into closed-loop operation.
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Old 06-27-2010, 06:32 AM
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I guess I need a step by step on replacing the chip set.

I haven't handled circuit boards before and want to do this correctly (while saving money to replace the inevitable cat that will have to be replaced.)

Thanks in advance you guys
Old 06-27-2010, 06:42 AM
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oh ok, I didn't know that (about the welt chip).

I am still waiting to make sure that the chip is actually in there. I am buying a multimeter today to check the voltage on the new o2 sensor that I installed. If I can do that, maybe I will adjust the CO situation from the AFM.

thanks again
Old 06-27-2010, 06:44 AM
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Just thinking out loud
 
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Is there any way you can register the car in another state and have it comply with those regulations? I'd register in a county that's out of the non attainment jurisdiction, but I don't have a fight here b/c the car is 25+ years. Just curious if another option is available.
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Old 06-27-2010, 07:15 AM
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AFAIK, Ca is very possessive of its system. In that cars that come in from other states also have to be smogged.

To be honest, other than the perfect weather, there isn't a lot else I like about CA. The taxes are high, it's hard to do business, and our state is perpetually broke... despite the taxes. If I could make CA money in another state, that would be awfully tempting.

I wish we had the 25 year rule... oh well.

Thanks again for the sentiment.
Old 06-27-2010, 10:36 AM
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correct - most cars registered here must pass CA smog - there are a number of zip codes in CA that are exempt though - that list is dwindling, and the number of states stepping up to CA testing is increasing rapidly

within the next couple of years all states will be using the same testing standards as CA - it's all part of a federal mandate that overrides state control in areas that have poor air quality - the more people and cars in an area, the poorer the air quality - when it hits a certain level (tested twice a year by the EPA) then the federal testing standard kicks in

bad news for those of us running stuff that doesn't pass CA smog

i seriously doubt the chip is the problem though - the testing here doesn't get into the areas where the mixture would be rich, so more than likely it's a bad cat - aftermarket cats aren't very good at cleaning things up, so if you have one of those, i'd look at that

the O2 sensor is also another place to look - they only last about 60k miles, and tend to foul before that

Last edited by flash968; 06-27-2010 at 12:41 PM.. Reason: spelling
Old 06-27-2010, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flash968 View Post
i seriously doubt the chip is the problem though - the testing here doesn't get into the areas where the mixture would be rich, so more than likely it's a bad cat - aftermarket cats aren't very good at cleaning things up, so if you have one of those, i'd look at that

the O2 sensor is also another place to look - they only last bout 60k miles, and tend to foul before that
Yes, I replaced the O2 sensor before the pretest. The correct (full price) 3 wire Bosch unit via Pelican.

The HC and CO levels are at gross polluting levels (beyond failing). The tech said it was so off that it was beyond what a cat could clean up. It appears to be a (not the orginal) factory unit, not a race one (has the 951.xxx part number)

I made sure she was warm, and have tracked down all vacuum leaks as far as I can tell.

I have also patched up the factory airbox (until I can get a new one), as the previous owner seemed to not care about holes in the bottom, or the fact he had no connector/clamps on the back side.

Like I said, I am trying to eliminate variables, and an aftermarket chip set seems like a good thing to be suspicious of. And if replacing/reinstalling them isn't a big deal... I'll do it.

The rotor/distrib cap/ wires/ plugs are all new. The oil was changed within 1K miles. I ran Lucas injector cleaner as well as a fresh batch of Techron filled gas through the system.

I just bought a multimeter and will attempt to set the CO from the AFM this week. I hope to pull it back down to closer to Stoich. It is currently spitting wet carbon from the exhaust pipe which I HOPE is just the deposits left by running too rich prior. The FQS is set at "0". My NOx levels are so low (due to too much fuel) that I don't feel the need to retard timing at this point.

Thanks again all

Last edited by Litesonic; 06-27-2010 at 12:40 PM..
Old 06-27-2010, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flash968 View Post
within the next couple of years all states will be using the same testing standards as CA - it's all part of a federal mandate that overrides state control in areas that have poor air quality - the more people and cars in an area, the poorer the air quality - when it hits a certain level (tested twice a year by the EPA) then the federal testing standard kicks in.
If the state wants the money they will comply. Outside of that, I see a bunch of middle fingers extended.
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Old 06-27-2010, 04:02 PM
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they don't get a choice - the EPA has unlimited authority, and a ton of enforcement capability

but many states are already adopting the new standards and testing - it's happening state by state

the upshot, as you mentioned, is that the states stand to make a big bag o cash for the testing - it's a huge money maker here, and with the economy the way it is, you can expect it to happen sooner than later
Old 06-27-2010, 05:15 PM
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I'm pretty sure Texas is telling the feds to stick it up their a$$. We may pay for it, but it's what needs to happen. We pay in more than we receive.
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Old 06-27-2010, 06:44 PM
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Chip replacement is very easy, just make sure you are not changing them with socks on while dragging your feet across a shag carpet and rubbing a balloon on your hair...in other words static is the enemy. Touch a door knob or light outlet cover before you start.

http://web.archive.org/web/20041124234744/www.tech-session.com/kb/index.php?page=index_v2&id=41&c=4

I had issues getting my car to pass inspection also when it was still almost completely stock. Look at my thread here for info on how i eventually got it to pass. Specifically look at the last page around post #40. I think the #1 issue with mine was the CO adjustment screw on the AFM was way out of whack.

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/944-turbo-and-turbo-s-forum/442615-failed-nys-emissions-by-epic-proportions.html

I live in the Metro NY area and we have to deal with the emissions dyno on pre OBDII cars also. 25-years old and cars are exempt.. 3 more years to go on my 951. There is some talk that NYS is going to get rid of the emissions testing and just make it a safety inspection. NYS is broke and they are voting on doing away with the program. A buddy of mine has the emissions equipment at his shop and something on the dyno breaks probably twice a year. Repair is usually a few $k every time a tech has to come down..and they get maybe 5 cars a month that are not OBDII. Flat rate fee is i think $35 or something like that to run a car on the dyno. It takes close to an hour to warm up the dyno and get the car strapped down, run it..etc. Most shops you call now days just say the dyno is broken as its basically a loose loose situation for them. Waste an hour doing an inspection for someone and get $35.. or not waste your time and do ~$75 an hr normal service jobs. True they might find a car needs brakes or other work to pass inspection..but usually its still not worth the time. The amount of pre OBDII cars still on the road is pretty small, i would bet less than 20% in my area.
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Last edited by Techno Duck; 06-27-2010 at 06:56 PM..
Old 06-27-2010, 06:45 PM
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Litesonic, changing the chip is easy - nothing to worry about:

Chip Change Guide

The stock chip requires a 2.5bar FPR. The Welt uses a 3bar. But for E-test, you need to pull fuel (and timing, most likely). As you pull fuel, your NOx will go up, requiring timing to be pulled.
If you have a working cat, and are that rich, then something is wrong. The Welt chips are not overly rich. It sounds like the car might not be going to closed-loop - check your coolant temp sensor.
Also, have you verified that you have a Welt chip? If you are using a 3bar FPR with stock chips, then it will be overly rich...


-Rogue
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Old 06-27-2010, 06:45 PM
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THANKS... I knew I could count on you guys for help.

I am confirming that I have the welt chip... there is also some note somewhere that shims are added (not sure if the PO did this or not).

I am also contacting the company that supplied the rmfd. DME as to whether they left (or transplanted) the chips over or not.

The coolant temp sensor is below the throttle, correct? Mine appears a little wiggly...
Old 06-27-2010, 07:26 PM
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there are youtube videos demonstrating chip changes in the bosch units, i am pretty sure. i recently changed the chips in my boxes and it was a piece of cake.
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Old 06-28-2010, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue_Ant View Post

The stock chip requires a 2.5bar FPR. The Welt uses a 3bar. But for E-test, you need to pull fuel (and timing, most likely). As you pull fuel, your NOx will go up, requiring timing to be pulled.
-Rogue
I verified the FPR is a 2.5bar... so that's ok. I am expecting the stock chips by Thursday, so I will crack the DME and K and plug in where they go.

On setting the CO via the AFM... it is described matter of fact-ly in several places. I grasp the concept, but I am still on a learning curve here. How do I bypass the Idle stabilizer? Pull the DME relay from the fuse box? Where is the Diagnostic plug? Sorry, need a picture on this...

Another thing I "discovered" is that the DME relay in my fuse box is NAKED!!! there is no plastic sheath over it. I have a new one via Pelican Parts. At the risk of being paranoid, should I replace it or strip my new one?

Again thanks all for the education.
Old 06-28-2010, 10:35 PM
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replace it.
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Old 06-28-2010, 10:41 PM
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replaced... And I found the diagnostic port! (hey small victory)

Old 06-29-2010, 08:34 AM
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