Can I ask a stupid question?

overkill · 04-05-2002, 07:34 AM

What happens if you put to much engine oil into the car? Is there an overflow hole or somthing that drains the excess oil?

divezic · divezic's Garage

Putting a little too much oil in the enging (1/2 quart or so) isn't a problem. When you put an excessive amount of oil in then you have problems. If the oil level at the bottom of the engine is too high then the crankshaft/rods will be beating the oil when running. This will foam the oil and in turn the oil will lose it's lubrication ability. There is no provision to drain the excessive oil.

944S Boyeee · 04-05-2002, 08:05 AM

Would this "beating" of the oil cause there to be a white milky sludge on the underside of the oil cap? I'm not asking this about the Porsche - but rather my Sidekick. I know I have overfilled the oil in the past (wrong dipstick) and was curious.

overkill · 04-05-2002, 08:32 AM

Well, although I didnt really overfill the engine. Maybe just a bit

I didnt think it was a problem. I fixed my leak! Not leaking anymore. I need my car this sunday andIm not to sure that Ill get my parts from PP in time so I use the old gasket with the tear in the corner.It didnt tear all the way through so that help alot. I used an engine silicone to seal the gasket reall good. Which is did very well. WhenI get the new gasket and after this weekend passes, ill put that one in.

adrian jaye · 04-05-2002, 09:53 AM

YOu'll also get big plumes of white smoke as you hit the gas hard

Or so I'm told !

maachan · 04-06-2002, 04:52 AM

Hi,

944Boyeee.

That white stuff underside the oil filler cap may be due to some moisture in the crank case. Check to see any coolant loss, check to see coolant tank for oil contamination.

Or oil may turn into like mayonnaise state !!!! Thanks to turning crank shaft. In that case, you don't need to bring mayo for your sandwich.

Maachan

41V · 04-06-2002, 05:35 AM

bit of trivia: the term for this phenomenon is 'windage'. Back in the old days (70's) shops used to sell windage trays that mounted between the block and oil pan to prevent oil splashing up and hitting the crank. At high rpms, this splashing would rob horsepower. I somehow remember this being a concern mostly for mopar (Chrysler) engines.

Booster · 04-06-2002, 11:52 AM

Boyee do you drive the Sidkick for short drives? If so there is moisture in the oil and it is forming on your filler cap, on long drives you burn the moisture off the oil and you will not see the milky mix on your oil cap........if you don't see the milky mix on your dip stick you probably don't have a problem......I have seen that on many cars that are used for short runs around town.

Russ,
944T

maachan · 04-06-2002, 08:03 PM

Where is that moistre come from???

Maachan

Booster · 04-07-2002, 09:45 AM

It's just moisture from the atomsphere (humidity)...your engine has air in it too...it's not a totally closed system, if you take a pot of cooking oil and heat it on the stove with a lid on it moisture will collect on the lid in the heating process, the same holds true for a car engine except the lid for the pot is your oil cap, the longer you run the engine and the longer it stays hot the moisture will evaporate over a period of time but when you shut down the engine the heat will draw moisture back into it as it cools so if you drive short distances you don't heat the engine long enough to evaporate it, the repeated short drives lets it build up and thats what you see on the cap.............it will not hurt anything though...it just looks nasty.

Russ,
944T

arnebret · 04-07-2002, 10:01 AM

Hehe, i just added a bit of oil to the engine as well (regular fill-up) and noticed i also overfilled just a bit. It was just a bit above the top indication. This might have been about a 0.1 quart or so. I heard that overfilling an engine is indeed not to big a problem, unless it's at such an amount as described before and will get all 'milkshaked'. Normally, a liter of excessive oil is not a problem, the dipstick max isn't the extreme but should always be used as the maximum point to fill the engine up. I don't know how much 'play' the porsche/audi guys designed on the dipstick, but i just always try to keep it between the two indicators... sometimes, i'm a bit too generous in oil

wannaberacer · 04-07-2002, 01:27 PM

arnebret,
An old autocross trick is to overfill the sump about 1/2 quart or so over. This, when cornering hard at high rpm, prevents oil-starvation. So as long as you don't go more than that, that shouldn't effect reliability.

As for moisture in your oil, have you thought of the possibility of a blown head gasket?? Smell your oil to sniff for antifreeze, or a smell that doesn't smell like oil. If you pass this test (and don't have an obvious overheating problem), I would still go to a mechanic to get it checked out. Because it is NOT normal to have water condensation in your motor. I never experienced it until I blew my head gasket.

maachan · 04-07-2002, 02:25 PM

HI,

Thank you for your input Wannberacer. That was where I'm leading.

I know there is moisture in atomsphere and that could go into the crankcase. But the amount of that ,I think, is minimal. I did not note where Overkill is located, but unless he is in rainforest.?

If overkill shuts down his engine before water temp reads normal operating temp often, what booster is saying is start to make sense to me. The moistrue could enter the crankcase though breather pipe, and get collected. Or combustion byproduct , H2O, is making pass though the rings, and get collected.

I still think he may have blown head gasket.

Maachan

maachan · 04-07-2002, 02:28 PM

Hi,

I made a misstake. It was 944S Boyee who has condensation problem, not Overkill.

Sorry,
Maachan

944S Boyeee · 04-08-2002, 05:55 AM

Concerning my Sidekick. It is true I only really do short trips in it - one reason being, it sucks on the highway reallllly bad. The other reason being is that I had the valve seals done a while back and when we had the head off, I noticed one of the pistons had a bit of play in it (I could wiggle piston #3 very slightly - the others were rock solid). Guessing this was a bad ring, I asked the guy doing the valve seals if he thought it was ok. He said, "it should be". I'm not expert, but I know if you "tighten up" the top end (new valve seals, etc) - it puts more pressure on the bottom end (well, at least more than when the valve seals were gone) and perhaps this loose piston would be a problem.

Anywho - now when I come to lights and such, the oil light flickers as I slow down and stays on at stops until I go again. This is obviously a loss of oil pressure due to that bad ring, no?? That is another reason I don't drive it far - it has little power and I can hear a "clicking" sound when I accelerate hard (piston again?). These short trips must be causing the moisture to stay in the engine. My dipstick isn't milky, but I do burn about a quart of oil every week to a week and a half (sweet, eh?).

Not a huge problem as the guy who did the valve seals only charged me $250 to do that and is going to charge me $500 to do the piston rings, rod bearing and all lower seals - so it isn't a huge wallet breaker.

944SBoyeee

P.S. - I also notice on Sidekick start-up sometimes that I'll get black "soot" flying out of the tailpipe - what is that all about?????

COLDBASS · 04-08-2002, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 944S Boyeee
Would this "beating" of the oil cause there to be a white milky sludge on the underside of the oil cap? I'm not asking this about the Porsche - but rather my Sidekick. I know I have overfilled the oil in the past (wrong dipstick) and was curious.

944S Boyeee,

Initially, I too was alarmed when I experienced the same thing. My tuner indicated that it was merely condensation build up. I now simply wipe it off every time I check the oil.

Bob

drew1 · 04-09-2002, 06:03 PM

I've seen it in my 914.

drew1

maachan · 04-09-2002, 10:12 PM

Hi,

It seems like the sidekick needs complete engine overhaul, doesn't it. I don't know how thorough one can do an overhaul for $500. Is it a going price in your area?

I have seen some rust on the inside of oil filler cap on an aircraft engine. I do believe this is clear sign of condensation. The engine is air cooled engine, I think 914 too. There is no issue of coolant loss in this case. I think the moisture is due to combustion, compression leak through the rings.

If I see condensation in water cooled engine's filler cap, first thing I would check is coolant level and color. My nose is not all that good so I don't know if I can tell it by smelling the dip stick to see if there is coolant in the oil. I may do comp check next.

Or I would just put this product called "Engine Restore" in the crankcase and foreget about it. On an engine I did comp check then used this product. 500 miles later I did another comp check. The before-score was low and not even, but the after-score was higher and much more even. I know this product works.

Maachan

944S Boyeee · 04-10-2002, 08:30 AM

Maachan - the guy who is doing the rings and rod bearing is a friend and is only charging me $500. I know at the dealership, they quoted me around $1600 for the same job. He said the book time is around 15-17 hours (seems a bit high). My buddy said he can pull an engine out of a Sidekick and and put it back in in about 3-4 hours. The engines are very small and I've watched him pull the head (to do the valve seals) in like 25 minutes.

What does an "engine job" entail?? Is it just replacing the rings? Up top, I've got new valve seals, head gasket, and the head was plained - what else is left in an engine job???

944SBoyeee

944S Boyeee · 04-10-2002, 08:32 AM

......also, what is this engine restore stuff?? I know I've seen many "snake oils" out there. What exactly does this stuff do?? Did you use it in the Porsche???

944SBoyee