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That Guy
 
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Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: LI, NY
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I am definetley not the 'goto' source for this type of info as i can only tell you what i have learned from reading past threads. I highly recommend checking out this forum.. http://944hybrids.forumotion.com/ . Everything i could think to ask was basically answered already and all it took was looking through old posts. I recommend searching the forum using Google however as the boards search function is not too great.

But i will try my best to answer your questions,

The clutch setup consists of using a C5 two piece bell housing and a billet adapter plate to mate the bell housing with the torque tube flange. For the actual clutch setup, basically a C5 Corvette flywheel and pressure plate are used with a clutch disc that has a custom hub to fit the 944's torque tube splines. This is not as difficult as the word 'custom' usually entails.. Spec clutches make a clutch disc package (clutch disc and pressure plate) that is meant specifically for LS converted 944's.

The OEM fuel pump setup will work fine, i dont know the exact HP number (i would guess somewhere around 400bhp) you would probably need to upgrade to a larger fuel pump like the Bosch HV (basically an '80s Mercedes 500E pump) or the larger (and very popular) Bosch 044 pump. Both are the normal choices used for high HP 951's and fit the same as with an LS.

You have a few options for the wiring.. The engine harness for the most part out of whatever donor car is standalone, meaning it can only needs a few wires hooked up to work. The work however lies in removing wiring that is not applicable to the 944...etc. Something else to take into consideration is the routing of the harness. For example, the f-body (Camaro, Firebird..etc) engine harness routes to the passenger side of the engine bay. The GTO harness i got routed to the drivers side. I wanted to route the LS engine harness the same as the original harness and mount the PCM into the passenger footwell just like it was originally with the DME. The GTO harness also has wiring for the body control module as part of the engine harness (F-body does not have this).. so rather than spend hours reading the wiring diagram and cutting out wiring..and still having to deal with harness routing, i decided to buy a new, standalone engine harness specifically meant for conversion cars. This harness is really nice in that it has an auxiliary fuse block already wired in, so it saves you the trouble of doing it yourself. I ended up selling the GTO harness for half the cost of the standalone harness.. so for me i thought it was a no brainer almost.

All gauges will work as they did before. The tach literally needs one wire connected to the engine harness. The oil pressure gauge will need new wires routed, aswell as the water temp gauge. All pretty simple to do.

Brand spanking new engine harness.. no more 25 year old wiring!

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Jon - MetroNY PCA #848
1987 Zermatt Silver 924S..'The Kraut Burner' - Sold in Nov. '04
1987 Guards Red 944..'The Bratwurst Burner' - Low and Slow..Sold in Jan. '08
1988 Guards Red 944 Turbo..'Das Boost' - Powered by 5.7L LS1
2003 Black Sapphire Metallic E39 540i M-Sport
Old 05-01-2012, 07:16 PM
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That Guy
 
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I am still debating a few things, but was hoping to have the engine installed before i left again next week. Unfortunately it took longer than i had anticipated to get some parts and i am still missing a few odds and ends to even finish assembly on the motor (my fault for waiting until the last minute to order!).

My original plan was to install the engine myself, then have the car shipped to Dallas where TPC (TexasPerformanceConcepts as mentioned above) would complete the conversion with all the little detailed things like the wiring, plumbing, exhaust, tuning...etc. I am thinking about doing this as the last thing i really want to do is spend hundreds of hours of my time off working on getting this car running. Also due to my work schedule its tough to find the time to work on the car sometimes..and i am usually pretty burnt out when i am on my off time from my time spent offshore. So in the interest of getting the car running in a reasonable time frame (and possibly making a few track days this year) i wanted to have it completed by a shop with experience doing these swaps.

As of now i am about a month behind where i wanted to be before i left again. I talked with the car carrier also who said it could be anywhere from 1-4 weeks before the car can be picked up, depending on location of the closest carrier, its route..etc. So it really puts a damper on that plan.

When i am back home again around June, i still plan to install the engine myself. But depending how i feel afterwards will be the deciding factor if i still send the car out or not.

In my opinion, what makes or breaks a swap like this is all the details. And its always the small details that suck up all the time. I can spend hours figuring the stuff out myself, or just bite the bullet and send it to someone who has done it before.

Still as many of you can tell by my posts i am a big "DIY'er" and enjoy the challenge. Also there is a certain pride when you can say you put the car together yourself .

Ill have a solid month to think about all of it while i am away!
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Jon - MetroNY PCA #848
1987 Zermatt Silver 924S..'The Kraut Burner' - Sold in Nov. '04
1987 Guards Red 944..'The Bratwurst Burner' - Low and Slow..Sold in Jan. '08
1988 Guards Red 944 Turbo..'Das Boost' - Powered by 5.7L LS1
2003 Black Sapphire Metallic E39 540i M-Sport

Last edited by Techno Duck; 05-01-2012 at 07:43 PM..
Old 05-01-2012, 07:33 PM
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77 924..clinton twp. mi.
 
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im thinking of doing the same thing with a small block ford..(hate GM)..302 with carb's..have a nice one out of a ponny car (GT) but i dont see kit's for a ford..???..did u see any..???
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Old 05-01-2012, 08:00 PM
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Usually when installing a Carbureted Motor the 924/944's require a raised hood style (Cowling Vent, etc.), and that's with ford or cheby, but it is doable.
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78-924 traded for 80-931 traded for 84-944 traded for 85.5-944 (7th one now).
UAV-M1 (Urban Assault Vehicle - Model 1)
Bless the lowered, and pass the nitromethane.
Pedal to the metal till you see the gates of hell then brake
NLA - No longer available is a four letter word
Old 05-02-2012, 04:28 AM
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This post was deleted do to a controversy...
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78-924 traded for 80-931 traded for 84-944 traded for 85.5-944 (7th one now).
UAV-M1 (Urban Assault Vehicle - Model 1)
Bless the lowered, and pass the nitromethane.
Pedal to the metal till you see the gates of hell then brake
NLA - No longer available is a four letter word

Last edited by Cocacolakidd; 05-02-2012 at 07:17 AM..
Old 05-02-2012, 04:49 AM
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I would strongly suggest that anyone who is considering a swap go to the 944hybrids website before they consider sending Sloan any money. The 944 hybrids website has all the info that's in the Sloan manual x 1000 and lots of information about him that can save you from getting "Sloaned."

I know, I know, Cckidd got his manual and didn't get scammed.

Regardless, you all have been warned.
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1987 944T w/LS1
1981 911SC

Last edited by acorad; 05-02-2012 at 01:26 PM..
Old 05-02-2012, 06:42 AM
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Oops, I had no idea that Sloan was that way. For me it was a one time deal, and I received a good manual full of allot of information.

I guess buyer beware - I would have hated that my mentioning of the manual that others would have been ripped off
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78-924 traded for 80-931 traded for 84-944 traded for 85.5-944 (7th one now).
UAV-M1 (Urban Assault Vehicle - Model 1)
Bless the lowered, and pass the nitromethane.
Pedal to the metal till you see the gates of hell then brake
NLA - No longer available is a four letter word

Last edited by Cocacolakidd; 05-02-2012 at 07:02 AM..
Old 05-02-2012, 06:57 AM
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That Guy
 
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I would just edit your post and remove that information about contacting Sloan in the event someone is reading quickly and ends up ordering one. I have a copy of the V8 manual and like acorad said there is nothing in it that cant be found on the 944Hybrid forum. A friend of mine got "Sloan'ed" though luckily got most of the parts before he disappeared.
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Jon - MetroNY PCA #848
1987 Zermatt Silver 924S..'The Kraut Burner' - Sold in Nov. '04
1987 Guards Red 944..'The Bratwurst Burner' - Low and Slow..Sold in Jan. '08
1988 Guards Red 944 Turbo..'Das Boost' - Powered by 5.7L LS1
2003 Black Sapphire Metallic E39 540i M-Sport
Old 05-02-2012, 07:14 AM
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that wiring harness is a work of art
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1995 993 C2
1988 944 <gone but not forgotten
Old 05-02-2012, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cocacolakidd View Post
Oops, I had no idea that Sloan was that way.
No worries CCkidd!
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1987 944T w/LS1
1981 911SC
Old 05-02-2012, 10:37 AM
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That Guy
 
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Happy i cleaned off my work bench the other day because i got a ton of stuff today. Here are some pics of the notable items..

Here is the bell housing adapter on the C5 bell housing..


Oil pan and pickup tube


Not much else done today other than setting up the ported throttle body and fuel rails / injectors on the intake.





Also working on a making a new battery mount for my Odyssey PC680. I had made a mount out of medium denisty fiberboard like 4+ years ago and after all the exposure to the rain and snow for the last few years it is pretty rotted. Decided to make 'Version 2.0' using a piece of aluminum. I was going to have my local machine shop do this but decided to just work on it myself. Just need to finish everything up tomorrow with my friends drill press. Here is why CNC machines were invented .

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Jon - MetroNY PCA #848
1987 Zermatt Silver 924S..'The Kraut Burner' - Sold in Nov. '04
1987 Guards Red 944..'The Bratwurst Burner' - Low and Slow..Sold in Jan. '08
1988 Guards Red 944 Turbo..'Das Boost' - Powered by 5.7L LS1
2003 Black Sapphire Metallic E39 540i M-Sport
Old 05-02-2012, 06:48 PM
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I dont know what your time frame is but it looks like you are moving along very fast, a bunch of us NY guys are taking a run up to the Hawks Nest on the 19th would love to see the car if its done by then.

Regards
Dave
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Old 05-02-2012, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Colangelo View Post
I dont know what your time frame is but it looks like you are moving along very fast, a bunch of us NY guys are taking a run up to the Hawks Nest on the 19th would love to see the car if its done by then.

Regards
Dave
the motor swaps are so ez to do in these things so they go quight fast . my 1st one took about 4 weeks working nights after i got the kit . now that i have done so many of them they can be done i just 7 to 10 days with me fabing 99.% of what is needed to do the swaps .
Old 05-03-2012, 04:17 AM
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Techno duck, are you pretty confident in the ability of the PC680 to crank your engine over? What part of the country are you located in? Warm climate? The CCA on that battery are only 220. I have been looking into lighter batteries for my car (I have a bored and stroked DOHC 4.6 liter ford engine in mine). I am stuck on what to get and I had found the PC680 but didn't think it would work. I was looking into lithiums but anything big enough is really expensive. Let me know your thoughts. I am looking to try to do something soon.

Matt
Old 05-03-2012, 07:00 AM
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That Guy
 
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Dave, as of now i do not think it will be ready to go until atleast late July. I work in the Gulf of Mex. and will be leaving in a few days until probably early June.

Matt, i thought about the PC680's ability to crank the car and figure i will give it a shot. I used to run that battery year round with the 2.5L and on a few occasions have started the car in the dead of winter (NYC area) with 15w50 oil after sitting 5-6 days. It cranked slow as hell, but always started. I only drive the car in the warmer months now so i think it should be ok. If it doesnt work, ill go larger with the 925 or 1200 if need be.
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Jon - MetroNY PCA #848
1987 Zermatt Silver 924S..'The Kraut Burner' - Sold in Nov. '04
1987 Guards Red 944..'The Bratwurst Burner' - Low and Slow..Sold in Jan. '08
1988 Guards Red 944 Turbo..'Das Boost' - Powered by 5.7L LS1
2003 Black Sapphire Metallic E39 540i M-Sport

Last edited by Techno Duck; 05-03-2012 at 07:16 AM..
Old 05-03-2012, 07:13 AM
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That Guy
 
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Mostly finished with my battery hold down bracket. It took about 3x longer and i was originally going to bring it to a machine shop to have done, but i figured it would be a fun project.

The dimensions do not really need to be exact, so i sort of eye balled everything and laid it all out with a tape measure. So not everything is exactly evenly spaced.. . Anyhow using a 1.5" hole saw with my friends cheap Harbor Freight drill press to go through a 3/4" thick aluminum plate takes alot longer than you would think, then multiply that by 16 . If only Harbor Freight sold a cheap waterjet.. .



The material i used was a 3/4" thick, 8x11" plate of 6061 aluminum and a 5/16th -18 threaded rod. Total material cost was about $50. I cut the plate to approximately 9x7" and drilled the holes for the threaded rod centerline, about 8" apart. Tap the holes for the 5/16th rod and also cut the rod down to size. Then using red Loctite, i threaded the rods in so they stay put. I also used a 1.5" hole saw to 'swiss cheese' the bracket and lighten it up. The bracket is still a bit on the heavy side (i estimate about 2-3lbs). Will probably drop it off at the machine shop when i bring in my heads and have them mill down the center about .5". That will probably cut the weight another 30%.



Bracket roughly in place. I need to use a dremel to slot the plate slightly so it will slide under the battery hold down 'lip' on the left side of the picture. The plate fits under it fine, however the lip has a 'v' shape in it for strength which ends up lower than the plate. So notching the bracket where it would slide in maybe 1/8" should do the trick. With that done, the removable black tie down bracket on the right will fit squarely on the plate.



An how things look with the battery in place. The black tie down bar was from the older version of the bracket i had done. It is just a piece of cheap galvanized strap (i think 1/8" thick) with holes drilled to match the studs.



I did some reading and i believe the PC680 should be fine to crank over the LS1 as long as its above freezing out. The PC680 i have has been a great battery and is over 6 years old at this point, so i may eventually 'upgrade' to something like the PC925 which dimensionally is very close to the 680. with the 680 laid on its side, the 925 actually has a slightly smaller footprint, just it is 2" taller.

Anyways, this will probably be the last update until June or so when i get back home.
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Jon - MetroNY PCA #848
1987 Zermatt Silver 924S..'The Kraut Burner' - Sold in Nov. '04
1987 Guards Red 944..'The Bratwurst Burner' - Low and Slow..Sold in Jan. '08
1988 Guards Red 944 Turbo..'Das Boost' - Powered by 5.7L LS1
2003 Black Sapphire Metallic E39 540i M-Sport

Last edited by Techno Duck; 05-06-2012 at 04:59 PM..
Old 05-06-2012, 03:45 PM
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Jon, what's the status on this?

Inquiring minds want to know!!
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Old 09-05-2012, 09:51 AM
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Spent 129 days so far out of this year down in the gulf, so haven't had much time to get anything done. The motor is about 1/3 of the way assembled. Should be home next week through the end of September, the plan is to finish assembly of the motor and get it into the car before i leave again.

Photobucket is down right now for maintenance, will post some pictures when its back up.
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Jon - MetroNY PCA #848
1987 Zermatt Silver 924S..'The Kraut Burner' - Sold in Nov. '04
1987 Guards Red 944..'The Bratwurst Burner' - Low and Slow..Sold in Jan. '08
1988 Guards Red 944 Turbo..'Das Boost' - Powered by 5.7L LS1
2003 Black Sapphire Metallic E39 540i M-Sport
Old 09-05-2012, 12:46 PM
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That Guy
 
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Here are a few pictures from the motor build,

Front end stripped down..





The only 'special' tool needed so far, a piece of threaded rod to press on the new cam sprocket, also needed to press on the crank damper.



New timing set, EPS cam and LS2 chain damper installed



and with the Katech blue printed oil pump.



4-bolt main



I fitted the new pickup tube also before i left, required some very minor trimming of the windage tray, basically 30 seconds with a buzz saw.





Long tube headers coated by SwainTech



Overall it was a welcome change how simple this engine is to work on. Timing set took only a few minutes to setup.. no crazy tools, anticipating the cam / crank rolling..etc.

For a time frame, i am hoping to have the motor fully assembled and installed by the end of the month. Hope to have it ready to go for shipment to Dallas to the builder by October - November. So that should leave me the winter to work out any minor kinks and get it ready for the 2013 track season.

BTW, i sold everything off the old turbo motor as of last week with the exception of a few small odds and ends. With all the rebuild and conversion parts, i am still only into this the cost of the motor.. and trust me i splurged quite a bit on parts for the LS1.
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Jon - MetroNY PCA #848
1987 Zermatt Silver 924S..'The Kraut Burner' - Sold in Nov. '04
1987 Guards Red 944..'The Bratwurst Burner' - Low and Slow..Sold in Jan. '08
1988 Guards Red 944 Turbo..'Das Boost' - Powered by 5.7L LS1
2003 Black Sapphire Metallic E39 540i M-Sport

Last edited by Techno Duck; 09-05-2012 at 09:08 PM..
Old 09-05-2012, 09:00 PM
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SIIIIIICK!!! good work!!
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1995 993 C2
1988 944 <gone but not forgotten
Old 09-06-2012, 06:28 AM
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Old 09-06-2012, 06:28 AM
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