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That Guy
 
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N/A'ing my Turbo; LS1 conversion project

Some people have asked me what i was doing to my car and why, so i figure i just start a build thread about it. Updates and progress will be slow due to my work schedule, but i will hopefully have the car running under push-rod V8 power by the end of summer.

A few people seemed to think i was a purist and were surprised i made the decision to swap engines. While i do love these cars and did enjoy the 951 engine it was basically a losing battle keeping it running to my standards. To me as a car guy, not just a Porsche fanatic i saw the merit in going with an LS1. I figured it would be a cool project and make for an even more unique car.

So to answer some questions, what made me want to put in the LS1? Well i spent alot of time / money on keeping my 951 running in top shape. I daily drove the car for a long time (including having snow tires on it) and started tracking the car more and more a few years ago. As usual, the more track time the car saw, the more minor faults appeared, in particular on the engine side of things. I am a major perfectionist when it comes to things, so while many people would probably ignore or not even notice an issue; to me all issues must be dealt with. Despite the rebuild i did over the winter my confidence in the engine was still pretty low, after spending much of the year trying to figure out other running issues i could only think 'what will be a problem next?'.

Dont take this as me bad mouthing the turbo engine, while it does have its weak points (rod bearings, headgaskets, aging wiring / electronics) i really enjoyed my time working on it and will miss the power surge from a well tuned modded turbo car. But ive gotten to the point where i would much rather be driving my car than constantly fixing something. This kind of thing was okay when i was in college and home on the weekends, but my work schedule the past 4 years almost has me away for 3-4 weeks at a time and the last thing i want to do with my time off is spend it trying to track down a problem and fixing it. I want to get in and drive, rather than get in, drive, then fix something. Now a stock or mostly stock turbo engine is a different story.. for example my local friend bought the long block out of my car to put into his fathers 951 track car which had well over 180k very hard miles on it. But when you bastardize a car like i did.. well you are inviting trouble . I mostly blame myself for the problems i had due to the extent in which i modified the car. I bought the car basically bone stock from a friend a few years ago. The extent of the mods were basically APE stage 2 chips and a LR boost enhancer. The car now was basically unrecognizable from when i purchased it.

This is how things looked many moons ago..





And how it looked a week or two before i pulled the engine..





You may ask, why not just buy something else? Well i really enjoy the 944 platform and have been driving a 944 series car for about 10 years now. My 951 was pretty well equipped for the track, its just the engine that wasn't up to the task. I considered other cars but nothing really within a reasonable price range peaked my interest. Like they say, dont bring anything to the track you cant afford to put into the wall... and a 993 or 996 GT3 are not cars i could afford to put into a tire wall!

So with that, before i parked the car last November i decided to go ahead with the LS1 swap. I spent the winter reading all i could about the LSx swaps aswell as learning about the LSx motors. For me to even consider an engine swap, it basically has to look / work as if it were a factory install. And over the last couple of years there has been alot of progress in LSx powered 944's. I decided to go with an LS1, in particular a GTO LS1 as it was the 'youngest' of the factory LS1 motors available and it also had some improvements like using the LS6 intake, LS6 block..etc. I spent a month or two browsing Car-Part, LS1Tech, eBay..etc looking for a good donor engine until i found one that fit, it was an LS1 with 58k miles taken out of a rear ended '04 GTO and had the complete dropout engine shipped to me on a pallet in February.. this included basically the entire engine, still dripping coolant out of the waterpump. I borrowed my friends pickup and brought the engine home from a local freight depot.



I cleaned the engine up and from there left it alone up until a few weeks ago when i got back home..



More details to come later .
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Jon - MetroNY PCA #848
1987 Zermatt Silver 924S..'The Kraut Burner' - Sold in Nov. '04
1987 Guards Red 944..'The Bratwurst Burner' - Low and Slow..Sold in Jan. '08
1988 Guards Red 944 Turbo..'Das Boost' - Powered by 5.7L LS1
2003 Black Sapphire Metallic E39 540i M-Sport

Last edited by Techno Duck; 04-26-2012 at 06:13 PM..
Old 04-26-2012, 06:06 PM
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ah, finally the official thread. looking forward to following this along, good work Jon.
I love the wheels on your car now. that shot of the new motor with the car under cover looming in the background is great.
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Old 04-26-2012, 06:46 PM
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Good luck to you Jon.

I'd like to do a V8 swap for my S2 car one day. For the amount of power and reliability you get, the investment makes total sense when you compare what it would cost to squeeze that sort of power from a 8V or 16V turbo 4 cylinder.
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Old 04-26-2012, 08:01 PM
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Very true Vic. The ultimate goal for my car used to be building a nice 3.0L turbo for it. I had all of the basic parts, 3.0L block, crank, 2.7L head, the Mahle 'slipper skirt' pistons..etc. But the cost to build it the way i wanted exceeded $10k almost. For me, putting an engine worth that much money and running it on the track would never sit well with me. I mean if my 2.5L turbo blew up, i would be pissed but that is about it. If a 3.0L turbo blew up on me i would probably be in tears trailering the car home! For well under $3k, you can find drop out LS1's in good condition, add another $1k or so and you can find an LS6 (C5 Z06 powerplant) and get 400bhp stock, add about $2-3k ontop of an LS1 and you can find a new 6.2L LS3 with 420+bhp stock! Blow an engine up, buy another and throw it in over the weekend. They are all over the place really.. just really depends how picky you want to be on mileage. Blow up even a 2.5L and you will spend a few days, possibly weeks trying to find one that needs to be sent halfway across the country usually. Then you need to wonder about the belts...etc.

Just the way i look at it, at even 300whp on a 951 you are sorta at that limit of reliability. On a LS1 you basically get 300whp on a stock engine! Throw on a cam and a decent set of headers and you net yourself +50whp. Throw on a set of heads from an LS6 or good CNC ported heads and you can tack on another 25+whp! All of this is basically just with bolt ons. Hard to even compare that to the factory 944 engine options.

For someone with a stock 951, who just daily drives or just as a weekend car this doesnt really apply. But for me i want something that is going to survive on the track without the amount of care a modded turbo engine needed.
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Jon - MetroNY PCA #848
1987 Zermatt Silver 924S..'The Kraut Burner' - Sold in Nov. '04
1987 Guards Red 944..'The Bratwurst Burner' - Low and Slow..Sold in Jan. '08
1988 Guards Red 944 Turbo..'Das Boost' - Powered by 5.7L LS1
2003 Black Sapphire Metallic E39 540i M-Sport

Last edited by Techno Duck; 04-26-2012 at 11:12 PM..
Old 04-26-2012, 11:10 PM
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Jon, I follow your posts and I'm surprised you are going this route. But, this is exactly what I will do when I come to that crossroad. I think the engine out of the GTO is a very good find. Adding the LS6 upgrades is an added plue.

I look forward to your updates - cause it will be done right.
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Old 04-27-2012, 03:43 AM
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Good luck with the project. I can understand the desire to swap for an LS1. Driving my V8 M3....I enjoy how easy it is to be pushed back in the seat.

In for updates!
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Old 04-27-2012, 04:41 AM
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Like the old saying goes,"It's cheaper just to buy a NA, instead of - er, how did that go?

I'm in for the up-dates

Have pfun...
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Old 04-27-2012, 04:57 AM
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Great thread John. Im at the same point with my car. Over 300,000 the motor is tired and due for an overhaul. But for the cost of a set of rod bearings, I can pick up a well running LS motor. My biggest complain with my car has always been that its hugely under-powered. So ive been seriously considering the swap.
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Old 04-27-2012, 05:31 AM
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i have done 8 of the V8 swaps to date and i'm on my 3rd one now for my self .
they are so ez and cheap to do . i'm in the middle of a motor build for my 944 cup car and have 7500 into that motor with another 2k left to spend on it before it's back in the car .
were on my ls1 build i only have a little over 6k into that one and i'm only looking at another 1500 or so before it's finished .
i don't buy the kits to do them i like to fab 99% of the things my self . the only things i do buy are the motors and adapter plates for the 260 dollar cost of the adapter plates it's not worth the time to mill them my self .
the 1st one i did a swap to i did how ever buy a kit . the motor mounts do not hold up for track only use . they started to get little cracks in them . so i designed my own that are far better than the kit style ones . the biggest wrong with them is they do not support the motors as they should be in the 944 chassis .
Old 04-27-2012, 06:40 AM
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Anyway to catch up to where i am at now, here is some more back story.

After nearly 6 weeks of being in the Gulf of Mex. i got back about two weeks ago ready to dive in. During my time away, i had compiled a list of everything on the car i wouldn't need anymore and could sell to help fund the LS swap. I was lucky when a local track buddy of mine had committed to buying the engine out of my car after he learned of what i was doing through the local PCA. His fathers 951 track car engine had finally given up last season after nearly 180k+ miles of hard use. This car was basically bone stock, so like i said.. stock vs modified is no comparison in terms of reliability! I took off all the aftermarket parts and under all that, was basically a fully rebuilt long block with brand new everything on it. So things worked out well.

This was perfect for me though as delivery of the engine would be easy considering he lives only about 15 minutes away. With the long block sold, it would just be all the bolt on parts that needed to be sold.

I pulled the car out of storage the week i got back and put around 150 miles on it. It was nice to get back behind the wheel after nearly 6 months in storage and also a good motivator to get the car finished quickly. On April 17th, 2012 the car moved under the 2.5L turbo for the last time with approximately 128,585 miles.

I started working on removing the engine last week. I went sort of the roundabout way on things and had removed the intake manifold so i could disconnect the engine harness off the long block.

Here is how things progressed working on it about 2hrs a day.





And finally on saturday morning the engine was basically ready to go come out. It was like an omen with the sun shining into the engine bay!



The only hangup on engine removal was the steering input shaft on the steering rack. I lost the small chisel i use to spread the pinch open. I was hoping by lowering the engine it would slide out but even after lowering the engine it was stuck on. Some light pressure with a pry bar freed it up and the engine basically came out without much fuss.

The plan was to lower the engine onto a dolly, then pickup the front end of the car with the engine hoist and roll the engine right out the front. I had removed the radiator and lower radiator support frame (really easy, 4 allen head bolts) which allows the engine to literally fit right through the radiator frame. This allows you to slide the engine out without having to pick the front end up another 5" about. Had some friends help support the engine on the dolly while i pulled it out from the front.



I lost track of time, but it only took about 10hrs to take out doing it the long way. I think realistically it can be done in 4-5hrs if you know what your doing.





The engine was on the dolly all of two hours or so before my friend came and picked it up. Was happy to get it out of the way quickly as i am running out of space quickly from taking apart two different engines.

And the car is now engineless..



I spent the last week or so basically shipping parts out. The parts from my turbo setup now reside in a few different states as far as Hawaii. I still have a few things to sell off but for the most part about i would say 3/4 of the stuff is gone already.

That about completes the backstory, more details to come about the actual LS1 build up next.
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Jon - MetroNY PCA #848
1987 Zermatt Silver 924S..'The Kraut Burner' - Sold in Nov. '04
1987 Guards Red 944..'The Bratwurst Burner' - Low and Slow..Sold in Jan. '08
1988 Guards Red 944 Turbo..'Das Boost' - Powered by 5.7L LS1
2003 Black Sapphire Metallic E39 540i M-Sport

Last edited by Techno Duck; 04-27-2012 at 08:41 AM..
Old 04-27-2012, 08:29 AM
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Looking good.
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Old 04-28-2012, 07:19 AM
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i like it still a dream to put a v8 in mine lol

all be following looks great if u could put some prices on the parts and where u get them maybe ull convert me also lol
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Old 04-28-2012, 05:11 PM
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subscribed.

thanks, TD.
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Old 04-28-2012, 07:45 PM
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Great pics....great thread John! I agree the GM engine transplant is the only answer for the 944. Whenever & IF mine takes a dump thats the route I'm takin'. I love the 944 and GM V8 power. Thanks for sharing with us.
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Old 04-29-2012, 08:11 AM
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Started cleaning the engine bay a few days ago, only made one pass so far but will probably do atleast one more before i consider it checked off the list. This is where my OCD really kicks in, i like a spotless engine bay.

Put the front suspension back on yesterday and after about a week on jackstands it was nice to get it back on the wheels again.





Been saying it for days now but today i will finally put the DME/KLR and rest of the engine harness out of the car.

Also will make a post with some more details about the actual LS1 build and my plans for the conversion, just havent had the time this weekend.
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Jon - MetroNY PCA #848
1987 Zermatt Silver 924S..'The Kraut Burner' - Sold in Nov. '04
1987 Guards Red 944..'The Bratwurst Burner' - Low and Slow..Sold in Jan. '08
1988 Guards Red 944 Turbo..'Das Boost' - Powered by 5.7L LS1
2003 Black Sapphire Metallic E39 540i M-Sport
Old 04-29-2012, 08:46 AM
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Did u use lots of Purple and a power washer? That came out fantastic!!
Old 04-29-2012, 09:17 AM
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Kevin, just some dish detergent, an old brillo sponge and for the real bad spots, Simple Green. I was lucky this engine was relatively leak free, so not much serious grease / grime buildup.

Finally pulled out the engine harness today which was strangely theraputic. It was always a major PITA trying to get all the wiring coiled nicely with the DME/KLR brackets. But between the aged wiring with unraveling friction tape leaving a gooey mess, addition of the LR crank / fuel injector replacement harnesses, misc vacuum lines for the boost controller and gauge, extra wire harness for the SMT8 piggyback and a few other things it was a complete mess. No amount of wireloom and zip ties could keep it organized. I swear i could never get the DME / KLR bracket to fit the same way twice.

So starting out with a clean slate in the passenger foot well for the new engine harness is going to be really nice. All that needs to get put in are the PCM and just figuring out where to mount an auxiliary fuse block and OBD port.

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Jon - MetroNY PCA #848
1987 Zermatt Silver 924S..'The Kraut Burner' - Sold in Nov. '04
1987 Guards Red 944..'The Bratwurst Burner' - Low and Slow..Sold in Jan. '08
1988 Guards Red 944 Turbo..'Das Boost' - Powered by 5.7L LS1
2003 Black Sapphire Metallic E39 540i M-Sport
Old 04-29-2012, 07:45 PM
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That Guy
 
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Here are some details about what i plan to do with the LS1 and the conversion parts.

Even though the LS1 i bought was relatively low mileage, i decided to reseal the entire engine and naturally do a few upgrades while it was apart. The LS1 is far less intimidating when looking at it with only two rotating seals.. the front crank seal and RMS. One thing i sorta dread is the learning curve on new engines, but this engine is really very simple in terms of its construction and parts. Here is my rough parts list..

Engine
EPS camshaft; going with a 226/230 with a 113LSA.. nothing too extreme
Patriot dual valve springs
CompCams chromoly push rods
CompCams rocker arm trunion retrofit
ARP head studs (and alot of other ARP hardware)
ATI super damper
PotzSpeed ported throttle body
Fast 36# injectors
Aeromotive billet rails
LS2 timing chain
LS6 chain damper
Katech blueprinted LS6 oil pump

I think 350-360whp is a pretty realistic HP number also.. and more than enough (atleast for now). The clutch package will be a Spec stage 2 with an aluminum Spec flywheel.

All the conversion parts will be coming from Texas Performance Concepts. This includes the engine uprights, bell housing adapter, oil pan, headers..etc.

The car will also retain power steering and i will be reinstalling a/c into the car. I previously deleted the a/c as i hardly ever used it. I always felt like it was putting way to much strain on the engine and it really killed the low end power, even on the turbo's. With the LS1.. well i hardly think i will notice the a/c on . I will say deleting a working a/c system is probably one of the worse ideas i ever had with the car. I can remember vividly a few occasions coming home from the track, sitting in Manhattan traffic in the dead of summer.

Boosted brakes will also be handled using a hydroboost setup.

I started disassembling the LS1 a few weeks ago and was happy to see the bores are all perfect which was sort of a sigh of relief when buying a used engine. Overall, all of the internals were really clean.. no sludge buildup or heavy varnish starting so i was pretty satisfied with the engine.





Here are some pictures of the rocker arm trunion retrofit. The stock rockers use a cageless needle bearing. Its possible for the bearings to fail, sending about 30 something needles floating into the oil system. So the retrofit kit uses a caged needle bearing and hardened trunion which are held in place using a snap ring. Really easy to replace also, the only special tool basically being a vice.



Completed one side of the engine in about an hour and a half..

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Jon - MetroNY PCA #848
1987 Zermatt Silver 924S..'The Kraut Burner' - Sold in Nov. '04
1987 Guards Red 944..'The Bratwurst Burner' - Low and Slow..Sold in Jan. '08
1988 Guards Red 944 Turbo..'Das Boost' - Powered by 5.7L LS1
2003 Black Sapphire Metallic E39 540i M-Sport

Last edited by Techno Duck; 05-01-2012 at 08:18 PM..
Old 05-01-2012, 07:45 PM
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Since you are doing such a good write up on the conversion, can I ask that you go into a bit of detail about things like what clutch setup you needed to get with what bellhousing to fit the torque tube? Then things like:
-Will the oem 944 fuel pump still work?
-Wiring issues getting the LS1 ECM to work with the 944 chassis and gauges?

I am doing my research now because I have a very nice and highly modded 87 944na that I plan on doing this to in the next couple of years. Thanks
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Old 05-01-2012, 08:01 PM
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Old 05-01-2012, 08:14 PM
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