Thanks Anthro, I bought a mount plate from xschop and it's gathering dust in a corner somewhere. I'm simply enjoying driving it these days.

Jim, i am a perfectionist and i really focus on the details. In my day job, standards need to be met with the equipment i work with as the lives of everyone onboard rely on it. This same thing applies to this car hobby of mine on the side.. i have very high standards. I am no professional car builder and id say 99% of the people who hang out in the 944 forum aren't professional builders either..well except for flash968 who has seen and done it all; from his $150k 968 to probably the lunar rover :rolleyes:. But i do my research and have a strong technical understanding of things that i think i can make the right calls as to what would be acceptable to my standards for what i want to do.

I asked many of the same questions before i tore apart, and tore out my very nice engine. Maybe 4-5 years ago as the V8 swaps started to become more predominant i would have never considered it. The conversions i was seeing were mostly backyard builds, using the LT1, using custom parts that were basically made using cobbled together or hacked together parts. Other problems were present like the lack of boosted brakes on any of these setups and things like bump steer changes due to the spacers being needed. However id guess around 3 years ago we started seeing some pretty nicely done swaps. It was not until 2 years ago did i start to seriously take an LSx swap into consideration. The original engine just had too much little problems with it, and being a perfectionist it drove me nuts. So the options were to sell the car and buy something else for a track / weekend car. The 993 and 6GT3 were high contenders, or swap the engine. I developed my car quite a bit over the last few years and i think it is a pretty well equipped (KW suspension, AOR Turbo S gearbox, Turbo S brakes, rebuilt torque tube from Constantine...etc), its just the engine was never totally up to par.

After much research i decided to go with the engine swap. I really love the 944 platform and really like how unique the 944 is. The 993 just looks like any old 911 to most and the 6GT3 looks like well... a run of the mill 996 with a big wing.

I was satisfied that alot of the things that i initially did not like about the V8 swaps were taken care of as alot of people had tried new things with success. There are many options for improving the brakes.. hydroboost (two different options are now available using Ford or BMW setups), dual master cylinder and pedal boxes have all been done on these cars. Brake balance can be adjusted using different sized master cylinders or bias valves. Bump steer is still a little bit of an issue, but the problems can be mitigated using adjustable bump steer kits, and i wonder how much of an issue this actually is in the real world. Other conversion specific parts are now readily available, like the bell housing adapter, clutch disc, headers, oil pan, uprights..etc. For most of us, (not flash968 though) we do not possess the skill, equipment for have the time / desire to design and make these parts. Not so anymore! All of these conversion specific parts are now available to simplify the swaps for those of us doing the swaps in their garages.

The extra 50-100lbs upfront is not a concern to me. I am running a light weight battery already which cut 20lbs off the front of the car, even then we are talking about probably a 5-6% difference in weight distribution. Now people like flash968, being a professional everything can probably feel the difference in how the car handles before and after he eats lunch. But i dont think the rest of us really need to worry about it too much. My car is predominantly a track and weekend car now days, so i have no problem going with a fiberglass hood, or striping out things like the a/c to make up for the weight increase. I do however have every intention of reinstalling the a/c with the LSx swap.. i am sick of sitting in traffic from August - September when coming home from the track! I cant imagine anyone feeling the difference of 5 or even 10% on a daily driven or weekend only street car.

The car is currently at a local place with a hopeful completion date of around spring time. I am very picky about who works on my car and this is one of the places i trust and thankfully they are located about 10 minutes from me. The quality of the workmanship, skill and knowledge of these two guys is top notch and i know they will do a great job which is why i chose them to finish this car. My work schedule makes it tough to get projects like this done, especially now where i am between NY and South Korea until the end of the year.

My point is there is so much information out there with a small, but great community of people doing these swaps. The swaps have been done by many different people and shops so there are alot of different ways it can be done. Thankfully most of these people share there findings and information, so you can easily pick and choose how you want to do things on your build. This is what i am doing with the shop finishing the build on my car. Ultimately it is up to them how they want to do things, but i gave them a folder of print outs and diagrams showing how others had done things already and other notes on how id personally like things done. So i hope armed with all this information, it will make for one solid car.

Your equipment doesn't happen to include a US aircraft carrier, does it? :D

lol - i didn't work on the lunar rover. the closest i got was working on part of the design of the mx missle.

yes, i have exacting standards. that's the engineer in me. that's what led me to developing an entire product line of parts for the 968. there wasn't much out there, and i didn't like what i found.

i've done the"project car/engine swap" nonsense to death. i dealt with plenty of them when i had my shop. nowadays, i expect a car to behave like a new car would, whether it is a modified car or an engine swap. it needs to sound act and feel just as tight, smooth, and connected.

i hope yours comes out that way. i know how disappointing these kinds of things can be 2 years down the road. that's likely why we see so many of them for sale not long after they get "finished". i know how disappointed the other guy was after spending $30 doing his swap, only to pay another $9k to yank it back out and put the 3.0 back in.

if it turns out well, i'd love to check it out. i still think it's a great concept. i'm just waiting to see a good one.

...any updates Techno duck?

Unfortunately no progress has been made since i dropped the car off in November. The place i have the car at has been busy and I've been really busy with work, so wasn't able to keep bugging them about the car. As a result the project lost focus. I wanted to make Hershey this year with it but that's definitely not going to happen. I stopped in on Monday to talk with them and i really hope to have the car ready to go by the time i am back stateside again late next month.

Would have liked to of had the turn around on this car be less than a year, looks like ill be over by a month or two at this point. Took the original engine out on the 27th of April, 2012.

This is a really good-looking conversion. I'm looking forward to seeing the finished product.

My first goal on mine, which is currently sitting there with most of the original engine in it still, is to have it at least moving on its own with a V8 engine in it by the end of summer this year. Detail work will probably take me a lot longer, but hopefully one short Pacific Northwest summer will be enough to get a new engine in it and make it move.

Wow Jon... I only just saw this thread. Can't wait to see your car when done!

Best

joe

Six months since my last update; yes this project is still alive!

Progress came to a halt over the summer, but focus is back on getting the car finished.

Currently the engine is in the car, but there is still quite a bit of work to be finished; most of it being the time consuming nit pick stuff. Id say its about 75% of the way there.

I think to date the biggest challenge was getting the hydroboost installed. I spent a few hours upside down working under the dash test fitting everything and making sure the angle of the push rod was complete. The shop did the final install of the hydrboost unit, and they said it was not a pleasant experience.. the biggest challenge being torquing the huge lock nut on the backside.

Here are some pictures from over the last few months showing some different stages of the engine swap.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...psdb235f8f.jpg

Final test fit of the hydroboost setup..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...psbd1f1b74.jpg

C5 Corvette bellhousing with the torque tube adapter fits like its supposed to be there!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...psd7d07fa9.jpg

Engine installed

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...ps335f9f0b.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...ps1c70dba4.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...ps440017b4.jpg

And this is currently how things look as of this morning...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...psb2c4ba8f.jpg

Hoping to have the car running in a few weeks, we are mostly waiting on hose, fittings and the radiator to come in right now.

The big stuff that still needs to be finished;

-Install Renegade Hybrids radiator
-Complete engine wiring
-Plumbing for oil lines, power steering
-Connect brake hard lines to the master cylinder
-Fabricate center section of the exhaust, already have a 4" catback
-Fabricate intake, we are planning on using a C6 Vette style intake that will run under the nose panel

I am not usually interested in this stuff but I did find this interesting. Great job

It looks like we're in roughly the same place. I have to finalize my intake plumbing, do the exhaust and get my power steering lines made up. I recently got my 914 headlight motor wired up so both of them actually work. I'm using a Ford 5.0, so I needed to pull the bar for radiator hose clearance instead of intake. I've actually had mine running with a temporary intake, but it won't clear the hood.

Have you gotten to hear it run yet?

I am feeling sorry for the two caster blocks so close to the headers....

Looking good and thanks for the updates Jon :)

Please explain to me how one of these swaps cost " $30k" :rolleyes:

Great thread, Techno Duck. Maybe when it's done you can pick out your posts and make a new thread, just of those for posterity and readability. Good luck with the rest of your project!

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps4f3b48b6.jpg

Nice lol.

Good job!

vinman - it's very easy to spend $30k on a swap like this. i know somebody who spent over that, paying the leading expert on this to the job, and it still did not have any of the on board electronics working due to everything going through the ECU (speedo, ABS, interior lights, yada yada). that would have cost more to sort out.

then, when he discovered at how poorly the car drove with the V8, he had to spend another $9k restoring it back to the supercharged 968 engine he pulled out to do the swap.

it's easy to spend a bunch doing something like this, if you want to do it right, and not rubber band and bubble gum something together with used parts.

I'm wondering why it drove so poorly if the v-8 weighed only around 40 to 50 lbs more. Did he make the mistake of putting a cast iron block in instead?

Once again, there is no connection between the interior wire harness and the engine harness on a 944. So your interior lights work.

The speedometer runs off a sensor on the transmission, No connection to the engine harness on the 944.

Is the guy with the 968 that was converted back on this forum? Have him come in and make a thread of his own to talk about the issues he had. This is build thread, not a discussion thread of the pro's and con's of swaps.

Techno Duck, have you plummed the carbon canister? If not, there is a good write up on 944hybrids. I can't tell from the picture, did you need to relocate the coil packs next to the hydroboost?

i wasn't trying to sidetrack the thread, left out all the details, and was merely pointing out that it is easy to spend that much money.

but, to answer the questions asked:

first off, it's about 100lbs heavier than the 968 engine, even with the bang zoom all aluminum motor he used, not 40 or 50. you have to factor in all the other stuff that goes with it, not just the engine. not the end of the world, but definitely threw off the balance.

as for driving poorly, everything about the way the car drove was a mess. tons of power in a straight line, but useless. the chassis couldn't handle it. everything that made the 968 what makes it what it is, was lost. it felt like an old vette.

the hydroboost system SUCKS!. you have no sense of the car stopping.

the engine has too much torque for the torque tube assembly. you can feel the shaft flex. really nasty feeling, but you wouldn't know it unless you were familiar with what it is supposed to feel like.

the clutch was incredibly insensitive, and you couldn't use first gear at all (and he was using the turbo box). the chatter was horrible. he used the bang zoom stuff too.

basically it spent every dime to do it right, took it to the leading expert in the country on these conversions, and still ended up with a bucket of bolts.

i now return you to hopefully what will be a better build, if only by avoiding some of the problems of somebody else

ugh :rolleyes:

Please just stop posting in this thread. After years of reading your posts on RL, Pelican and whats left of the 968 forum, i have zero interest in any of your input.

You seem to have one opinion on the LS swap, so we get the point. Yet you cant offer any details whatsoever on this car you drove other than how ****ty it was. Feel free to start another thread where you can discuss why an engine swap shouldnt be done.

I sent the thread about the charcoal canister to the shop working on the car, it looks really easy to hookup. The two rear most coil packs were relocated, he mounted them a bit higher up on the valve cover instead of a more remote setup like the other guys have done. I didnt look too closely at it, but it looks a little bit close to the nitrogen 'canister' on the hydroboost unit. So they may need to be moved further away depending how much engine movement there is. I dont expect there to be much though with the engine mounts.. but then again this thing does put out alot of torque!

The radiator from Renegade should have shipped last week, so work on the intake setup can start once that comes in.

The shop said they finished up the fuel lines, wiring on the engine side, battery cables and also completed hooking up the brake lines to the Ford master cylinder.

Unfortunately i am offshore for a few weeks, but looking forward to seeing the progress when i get back!

This is looking awesome. Hoping for a video when it's running! :D I'm planning one of these swaps as well, already have a shell of a car that I'll be using and decided on an LS1 engine. I'm collecting parts over the winter and will hopefully start building it with the help of some friends in the spring. I may message you with questions as my project progresses.

John,

If you pass the White Plains area I would like to take a look at the car. Or maybe I go meet you, really interested on the whole setup.

Keep your head up John, I've read a lot of your posts over the years too and realize you get into something and you DO get things done. Correctly.

I'm still tuned in...

There is an ignore button. Profile, user lists, add to ignore list. Effective.

Great work by the way. I used to have half baked rh 944 lt1. Brakes were higher pivot point. Sucked. Brothers stock mustang gt 1998 brakes felt just ok. Not sure what the solution is, but read all of tony g posts. He races so much, his suggestions have to work. I wish I could have that much track time....

Here is some more progress over the past month. The radiator took a bit longer to arrive than expected so that held up a few things. But the wait was worth it i think. Shop said it fit well and it made the hose routing much easier.

Just a few more things left to finish, hopefully it will be ready to start before i leave again in a few weeks :).

To be finished..

-Wire in fuse block for the PSI engine harness, tach signal, VSS..etc.
-C6 vette intake setup
-Hoses for coolant expansion tank
-Power steering lines
-Oil lines
-Exhaust from headers to cat-back
-Clutch master cylinder hookup, just waiting on 1 fitting so we can connect AN to the quick disconnect on the throwout bearing

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...ps9d0cd7e7.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...ps6def70a9.jpg

I hope to have the car back by the end of the year, so i can spend the rest of the winter working out all the bugs. By spring time id like to have it mostly sorted out. Your more than welcome to check the car out whenever.

Excellent work Jon, that engine looks like it grew there. Beautiful

Porsche 944 Turbo LS1 Swap - YouTube

Its freaken loud! 4" all the way back from the long tubes with a Magnaflow muffler. I may have to get something more quiet.. but for now i can live with it!

The only thing left to finish is the intake. Getting everything under the nose panel (in particular the MAF) has been a pain due to the clearance between the radiator and hood. Just waiting on a filter which should be here monday (i love Amazon Prime!).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...psf686f3b5.jpg

The rear section was off so a v-band could be installed to make removal easier. Everything fits amazingly well.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...ps4ba6f835.jpg

Hope to be able to bring the car over to the other shop for the alignment next week. A big hopeful is to have the car home by the 2nd week of January. Then i can start playing around with it :)

I sat in the car for the first time in a while today also. Felt a bit alien considering ive been driving my pickup and a E36. Pedal feel on the brakes was good, though the clutch will need some adjustment made. The pedal was surprisingly pretty light which i wasnt expecting. It was a bit spongy and the travel on the pedal was a little short. Needs to be bled again and hopefully can adjust the linkage / push rods enough to get the travel to my liking.

Jon

Looks fantastic!

Best

Joe

sounds amazing!

strong work!

Really nice work man, I wish I was that inclined to do a build like that.

Everything is done! Just cleaning up the engine harness wiring under the dash and doing some long overdue rust cleanup on the battery tray.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...ps60328f7e.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...ps1c80e23a.jpg

Jon

Fantastic!

Best

Joe

Jon,

You have help me a few times. I enjoy and honor your ability to share your knowledge and respect many of us who contribute to this board. I admire your attention to detail and doing it right.

I hope the car meets every expectation you planned. And if it doesn't, I know you will analyze the problem and fix it - it is the mark of a good engineer and craftsman. I admire your work and passion.

Good luck with your new ride. You inspire me and I hope many others.

All the best Jon!

944 ls
 

That is some serious 944-porn. Incredible work. Just beautiful.

Put about 9 miles on her earlier and filled up with gas for the first time in 2 years.

Looking forward to the weekend :).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...ps4eef080c.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...psa552cec9.jpg

Absolutely gorgeous - What of the handling with the NA motor in there ? Please let us know how the handling feels when you have a chance ...

.....Ricers beware.....