Does this stuff work?

[skyhawk5421]

I used the Lucas brand snake oil on both my cars and it didn't do dick

[333pg333]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

lower viscosity is always better, even if you loose pressure.

flow provides lubrication, not pressure. this is also why synthetic is always superior to dino oil, it is always thinner, even given the same rating as dino oil. this is because it is made with a base thin oil, and designed to handle heat, rather then made from a thick oil, with low temp thinners in it.

Well that doesn’t make sense. So if lower visc is ‘always better’ would you suggest us all switching to a 0w/30 M1 for example? In which case excuse me if I don’t follow your advice. These thin synthetics may indeed flow a little better which is nice for fuel economy but they won’t offer the film protection that a decent 20w/50 or higher dino oil will. Especially in a warmer climate, on the track or in bumper to bumper traffic. Refer to the owner’s handbook. I will stick to a decent weight oil with a proper ZDDP / Detergent package and know that my engine is protected. This is what our flat tappet motors were designed for. Use that other stuff at your peril. This is backed up by many many experienced Porsche workshops…not Porsche US who suggest we all switch to M1 low visc synthetic no matter what model Porsche you drive.

[333pg333]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

in my experience there is the science ... vs old people.

the science is actually pretty simple, just lots of people dont like to listen to it.

In my experience there is the new young person who believes everything they read vs people that actually work on these cars and know what they're talking about....including many cases of increased wear when using the new super duper thin synthetics with lowered ZDDP......

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by 333pg333

Well that doesn’t make sense. So if lower visc is ‘always better’ would you suggest us all switching to a 0w/30 M1 for example? In which case excuse me if I don’t follow your advice. These thin synthetics may indeed flow a little better which is nice for fuel economy but they won’t offer the film protection that a decent 20w/50 or higher dino oil will. Especially in a warmer climate, on the track or in bumper to bumper traffic. Refer to the owner’s handbook. I will stick to a decent weight oil with a proper ZDDP / Detergent package and know that my engine is protected. This is what our flat tappet motors were designed for. Use that other stuff at your peril. This is backed up by many many experienced Porsche workshops…not Porsche US who suggest we all switch to M1 low visc synthetic no matter what model Porsche you drive.

all oils are equally thin at engine temp, they are actually as thin as water at engine temp. again, you want the oil this thin, because thats how it actually lubricates, you dont want your oil to "stick" to anything, you want your oil to flow as freely as possible, because flow is lubrication. pressure doesn't keep the pistons sliding without wear, its flow of the oil that keeps the engine parts floating. the trouble with oil isnt that it thins out when up to temp. the issue with oil is that its thick at cold temps.

the primary difference in oils, is the cold viscosity. remember an engine wears most before its warm? this is because the oil is not up to temp and is not lubricating properly. so the thinner you oil is at cold temps, the more it lubricates (remember flow = lubrication), and the better it is for your engine.

synthetics are made differently then dino oil. dino oil is made with the thicker grade of oil (20w-50 is made from 50wt), with certain additives to get the cold properties of 20 wt. synthetics are made with the lighter oil, with additives and chemistry to keep it thin up at high temps. this is why synthetics are so much better at cold temps and at startup then dino oil, because its so thin.

synthetics are always better, period.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by 333pg333

In my experience there is the new young person who believes everything they read vs people that actually work on these cars and know what they're talking about....including many cases of increased wear when using the new super duper thin synthetics with lowered ZDDP......

mechanics are often blinded by the trees rather then seeing the forest. the actual chemistry and mechanics of oil isn't subjective, it is what it is. this is common in lots of automotive things, such as roll bars, tire mechanics, body roll, suspension dynamics etc etc, where lots of people know the "rules of thumb" but few actually understand why the rules are the rules of thumb, and when and why you should break them. knowing the base mechanics rather then just memorizing the rules of thumb is more productive and much more accurate.

[Gawernator]

Thread is very off-topic...

[333pg333]

Not sure what your position is in the Industry but you can write all you want about new technology being the saviour for all things however there are many accounts of worn parts due to running these lighter oils in our cars. Flow is NOT the be all and end all. Oils do not resemble each other at engine temp or hotter. The thicker dino oils at least have some form of film strength at heat. Your beloved hi-tech low visc oils are like hot water at those temps. When you need the most protection against all the mechanical parts that are trying to separate themselves at high speed from the engine case, if you don’t have film strength you will quickly learn the pitfalls under high loads. If so many problems occurred due to cold start lubrication (or lack of it), why, when we were all using thicker dino oils, weren’t cars failing all the time with over rapid wear rates? Answer…they weren’t. It was only when M1 lowered their ZDDP content without telling anyone that all of a sudden there were cases of accelerated wear all over the world. This, is real world science, not test tube bench race forum splatter.

[Guest765]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

all oils are equally thin at engine temp, they are actually as thin as water at engine temp. again, you want the oil this thin, because thats how it actually lubricates, you dont want your oil to "stick" to anything, you want your oil to flow as freely as possible, because flow is lubrication. pressure doesn't keep the pistons sliding without wear, its flow of the oil that keeps the engine parts floating. the trouble with oil isnt that it thins out when up to temp. the issue with oil is that its thick at cold temps.

the primary difference in oils, is the cold viscosity. remember an engine wears most before its warm? this is because the oil is not up to temp and is not lubricating properly. so the thinner you oil is at cold temps, the more it lubricates (remember flow = lubrication), and the better it is for your engine.

synthetics are made differently then dino oil. dino oil is made with the thicker grade of oil (20w-50 is made from 50wt), with certain additives to get the cold properties of 20 wt. synthetics are made with the lighter oil, with additives and chemistry to keep it thin up at high temps. this is why synthetics are so much better at cold temps and at startup then dino oil, because its so thin.

synthetics are always better, period.

You're wrong - BUT
the correct weight of synthetic oil IS and always will be better than equivalent dino oil. Fact.

It's just not for any of the reasons you stated.

[phoenix_iii]

Holy crap it's a full on oil thread!

[chamilun]

um, so.........................

does this stuff work?

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by 333pg333

Not sure what your position is in the Industry but you can write all you want about new technology being the saviour for all things however there are many accounts of worn parts due to running these lighter oils in our cars. Flow is NOT the be all and end all. Oils do not resemble each other at engine temp or hotter. The thicker dino oils at least have some form of film strength at heat. Your beloved hi-tech low visc oils are like hot water at those temps. When you need the most protection against all the mechanical parts that are trying to separate themselves at high speed from the engine case, if you don’t have film strength you will quickly learn the pitfalls under high loads. If so many problems occurred due to cold start lubrication (or lack of it), why, when we were all using thicker dino oils, weren’t cars failing all the time with over rapid wear rates? Answer…they weren’t. It was only when M1 lowered their ZDDP content without telling anyone that all of a sudden there were cases of accelerated wear all over the world. This, is real world science, not test tube bench race forum splatter.

cars did fail when there oil was not changed frequently on dino oil. now it is possible (i wouldn't recommend it) to go 10k miles before changing your oil. it used to be rare for cars to make it to 100k miles, now your not even expected to do large maintenance until after that point. film strength? you don't want your oil sticking to anything, you dont want it "strong" ... you want it thin like water, thats how it lubricates. and yes, at engine operating temps, most oils are the same viscosity, even dino oil is thin like water. they are designed to be that way.

oil is backwards from perception. so many people are freaked out that oil get thin with heat ... this is basically a non-issue. you want that. the trouble with oil is that it is to thick at anything other then operating temp.

[djnolan]

Interesting, I was expecting a few footnotes regarding the above theories.

I always thought thinner oil lubricated certain things better (rings, valve guides, wrist pins) and certain things worse (rod and crank bearings).

Engine power is more affected by the valve guides and cylinder bores than by the worn bearings. Loose valve guides and loose piston bore will lead to loss of compression so you wnat an oil that flows in these areas.

Therefore thinner would help retain engine power as it gets older (as long as the bearing don't wear out and you still have oil pressure).

But I don't track my cars, either.

[VirginiaF1]

Originally Posted by chamilun

um, so.........................

does this stuff work?

From thirdgen.org:
10/24/2010
MotorMouth
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Granite Falls, NC
Posts: 338
Car: 1992 Camaro RS
Engine: 305 TBI
Transmission: T5

"Re: Any personal experiences with "stop leak" products???

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In my experiance Stop Leak has caused me to have to replace 3 waterpumps. Two on my cars and one on my Mothers car. It is really meant for emergency use only. All three times the pumps went out within 2 - 4 months after using it. So from now now on if I have to use it as a last resort to get home or to a shop I will. I will then drain it ASAP!

[Marajit]

You lost me at oil is backwards from perception.

[TonyGO]

My daily driver 1994 toyota camry developed nasty oil leak.used ATP RE SEAL AT205 WAS LEAKING ABOUT A PINT A DAY,AFTER ABOUT A WEEK IT STOPED LEAKING ,HASNT LEAKED AGAIN,ILL USE IT IN THE CAR AGAIN WHEN I CHANGE OIL, I DONT NOW IF I WOULD USE IT IN MY PORSCHE ,BUT WORKED REALLY WELL FOR MY TOYOTA,FOR WHAT ITS WORTH,GOOD LUCK TonyG

[VirginiaF1]

Originally Posted by TonyGO

My daily driver 1994 toyota camry developed nasty oil leak.used ATP RE SEAL AT205 WAS LEAKING ABOUT A PINT A DAY,AFTER ABOUT A WEEK IT STOPED LEAKING ,HASNT LEAKED AGAIN,ILL USE IT IN THE CAR AGAIN WHEN I CHANGE OIL, I DONT NOW IF I WOULD USE IT IN MY PORSCHE ,BUT WORKED REALLY WELL FOR MY TOYOTA,FOR WHAT ITS WORTH,GOOD LUCK TonyG

Hi Tony..
Glad to hearit healed the Yota..
When did you put in the sealant?

[333pg333]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

cars did fail when there oil was not changed frequently on dino oil. now it is possible (i wouldn't recommend it) to go 10k miles before changing your oil. it used to be rare for cars to make it to 100k miles, now your not even expected to do large maintenance until after that point. film strength? you don't want your oil sticking to anything, you dont want it "strong" ... you want it thin like water, thats how it lubricates. and yes, at engine operating temps, most oils are the same viscosity, even dino oil is thin like water. they are designed to be that way.

oil is backwards from perception. so many people are freaked out that oil get thin with heat ... this is basically a non-issue. you want that. the trouble with oil is that it is to thick at anything other then operating temp.

Again, what's your profession and where do you get this information? Plenty of Porsches down here that have done 200,000 miles and more on their original engines using a decent 20w/50 dino oil. Your information is misleading. If we were all meant to use as thin an oil as possible why do many race cars still use a straight 50w or 60w oil? Why does oil pressure drop when using a light grade oil and the warning light come on yet when you change to a heavier e.g. 20w/50 it magically goes away? Therefore according to your logic, low oil pressure is a good thing...hmmm....good luck with that.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by 333pg333

Again, what's your profession and where do you get this information? Plenty of Porsches down here that have done 200,000 miles and more on their original engines using a decent 20w/50 dino oil. Your information is misleading. If we were all meant to use as thin an oil as possible why do many race cars still use a straight 50w or 60w oil? Why does oil pressure drop when using a light grade oil and the warning light come on yet when you change to a heavier e.g. 20w/50 it magically goes away? Therefore according to your logic, low oil pressure is a good thing...hmmm....good luck with that.

i am a mechanical engineer

race cars use straight oil because 1. they run at higher temps then we do, 2. they run longer and harder then we do (thats what she said) 3. they change there oil at less then 1000 miles 4. once they are started they are run until they are rebuilt (basically) .... etc etc etc

a racing situation is a very different one from street driving, or being stuck in traffic or nearly anything we do with out cars, so its not a good comparison.

of course oil pressure goes down when flow goes up because of thinner oil. if it drops into the warning zone, you have gone too far. i do not recommend that. i run 20w-50 full synthetic and don't ever see my pressure drop below 3 bar at idle, even when autocrossing/road racing.

[Guest1287]

Wow, I opened up the flood gates with this one. Seems to be a lot of different points of view on oil. At least I know NOT to use the stuff I originally asked about. I'll take all the points about oil into advisement.

I'm using Mobile 1 10w-40 in my both my 85.1 & 86 Turbo. I got a nice leak from the oil pan on my Turbo.

[Gawernator]

10w-40 and 20w-50 both work great for me... my first 944 was dino and the second uses synthetic. Haven't really noticed a difference.