Found a Turbo S engine

[bobe]

I have found a n '89 Turbo S engine for $1500.00 complete and running. I guess transplanting it into my '84 would be complicated. Would the NA tranny and brakes hold up ??

[Jrboulder]

No.

[rhett]

+1 on No...

Just for reference:



Of course, you could fit the motor, but you really do need to upgrade so much to make it safe and perform well .

[will944]

Well....you are off to a better start than trying to turbo the N/A motor. Fit the motor and exhaust.....then start upgrading the suspension, brakes, transaxle etc.

You will spend more money.....but if the car is near and dear to your heart.....keep it and upgrade it.

[9FF]

+1 if you have access to that motor at that price and your 84 is in excellent condition I wouldn't hesitate dropping that motor in there. Make sure you have the motor, harness, DME, KLR, and all the piping and heat shields to go with it.

You will probably need a whole bunch of spurious body and other parts to make it fit but those are available cheap used or aftermarket.

Just don't turn up the boost or drive it hard until you have time and money to upgrade your trans, suspension and brakes.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Brakes would be okay for daily use, ditto transmission. For aggressive or modded use, they'd be the limiting factors. Doubt the transmission would explode but if nothing else the gearing would be sub-optimal.

I suggest you send it to me for further testing and analysis.

[bobe]

Just tempted to perform the transplant. You don't come across a Turbo S motor too often, but there's a lot to it.

[Jrboulder]

Brakes would be okay for daily use, ditto transmission. For aggressive or modded use, they'd be the limiting factors. Doubt the transmission would explode but if nothing else the gearing would be sub-optimal.



I suggest you send it to me for further testing and analysis.

I tore down an na transmission with about 100k miles, 10k of which were used as a DD with a regular 951 motor. The
condition was not impressive.

[rhett]

Originally Posted by Jrboulder

I tore down an na transmission with about 100k miles, 10k of which were used as a DD with a regular 951 motor. The
condition was not impressive.

Yep, I also know of guys who have done the engine swap and not replaced the transmission (standard 951 as well), the box did not last long.

Who is going to drive carefully with a turbo engine..? The strain it places on the transmission is not trivial, that is why the turbo box is 'beefed up' and the oil is cooled, etc.

However, we are talking about a turbo S engine - even more horses, more torque, a few spirited clutch drops and the box will be toast.

Over here in the UK, if you did that swap and didn't upgrade the brakes - in the event of an accident the insurance assessor would inspect the vehicle and could refuse any claim..

[9FF]

...The strain it places on the transmission is not trivial, that is why the turbo box is 'beefed up' and the oil is cooled, etc..

My 86T stock trans is not "beefed up" neither does it have an oil cooler. The engine has a few mods and is chipped and I have used its ability to the full as a road car for over 10 years without a transmission hitch.

[rhett]

Hi 9FF, are you saying that your 1986 T has the same spec transaxle as a standard 944?

I had been lead to believe that the standard turbo transaxle is a strengthened variant of the base 944 unit, and that it went through further strengthening for the TS model, That is why I said the turbo box is 'beefed up', am I wrong somewhere here?

I understand that the oil cooler started as standard equipment, then went optional, then came back as standard on the TS. So, I expect that Porsche realised it perhaps was not too necessary for the road in the 220HP Turbo, but really was in the 250HP S model.

This type of conversion will always divide opinion, but I don't think that putting 250HP through a box designed for 150HP will be very reliable unless you treat it very carefully, which will kind of defeat the whole point of the work. Most of the posters in this thread (inc. yourself) have said that the brakes and transmission should be upgraded - Hey, we are all on the same page

All that said, I do not have first-hand experience of this swap, just know some guys who tried it and it failed. However, they might have been driving the thing like it was stolen - I don't know...

[9FF]

Hi 9FF, are you saying that your 1986 T has the same spec transaxle as a standard 944?

It's a stock 86 turbo trans, ROW 016J. Gearing aside I cannot see any difference to the 016J on my 86na but I understand something was strengthened on the Turbo?? No oil cooler though, guess that was an option on ROW cars in 86.

All I'm saying is that I have been running more power through it than a stock TurboS for a long time without any issues whatsoever....and I certainly don't baby it.

[rhett]

I thought they put 016R (or S) boxes in the stock 951?

Just had a check on Clarks, that's what they say too..? Is it the original unit?

If it is a J then you have a good one!

All the best..

[Gawernator]

You could certainly buy that and find a 951 with a blown motor and bam!!! S.

[9FF]

I thought they put 016R (or S) boxes in the stock 951?
Just had a check on Clarks, that's what they say too..? Is it the original unit?
If it is a J then you have a good one!
All the best..

Clarks doesn't differentiate US/ROW for the turbos but there is a difference. Turbos in 86 ROW had 016J's, US were 016K's. It's a stock factory fitted trans, hasn't been swapped, been in my family from new. Also, where the oil cooler pipes are supposed to be there are factory fitted block off plates, stamped with the Audi rings.

[v2rocket_aka944]

Do the swap, keep an eye out for a turbo transmission. Don't worry about the brakes unless you drive the autobahn or track the car.

[Jrboulder]

You could certainly buy that and find a 951 with a blown motor and bam!!! S.

Not a bad idea. I bought a garage kept 86 951 with 52k miles, Fuchs and and LSD for about the price of that motor. Only problem was it had a blown engine.

[AaronM]

Originally Posted by 9FF

It's a stock 86 turbo trans, ROW 016J. Gearing aside I cannot see any difference to the 016J on my 86na but I understand something was strengthened on the Turbo?? No oil cooler though, guess that was an option on ROW cars in 86.

The differential in the Turbo transaxles is significantly stronger than in the NA transaxles. The ring and pinion is a weak point even at NA power levels and you absolutely need a turbo ring and pinion if you're going beyond NA power levels.

However, given that replacing the r&p in a 944 transaxle is a labor-intensive process and setting the lash is fiddly (plus the relative lack of availability of the r&p as a separate part) it's generally cheaper and easier to just get a turbo transaxle.

I would NOT use a 944 NA transaxle with a turbo engine. It's just asking to blow apart the ring and pinion.

[333pg333]

What about all the intercooler, plumbing and venting? You can't just run a vented nose panel and hope that works.

[OK-944]

There is a "free for the taking" 951 trans on the Maine C.L. - just search "Porsche" in the auto parts section. No oil cooler (non lsd) and needs a seal...but sounds good otherwise.