What is this & why did I find it dangling in my wheel well?

[akaKJB]

I've been having an problem with the oil pressure gauge & light in my 1987 944S for months and have been looking around for possible solutions. One post I read last night mentioned reaching up into the right front wheel well and making sure the boots and wiring connections were solid and that fixing one of his problems. I jacked my car up on the right side to get a little better clearance and immediately found this:



Sorry there's not better detail - this was about the best shot I could get of it. Of the two leads coming out of the top, the one on the right, a single wire, has been cut completely. The dual lead coming out of the left side has also been cut with the ends stripped and then twisted together. I traced the connection from the bottom of the unit to a spot where it fed through a hole into the engine bay. My guess is that it has something to do with the brake sensors but I really don't know.

As for the oil pressure gauge, its been bouncing around at the top for a while now and a few months ago, the red light at the bottom of the display decided to join the fun and has either been flickering or just staying on. Oil level on the stick appears to be fine. I could probably put a quart in but it doesn't seem to be using any more oil than expected through regular driving.

I've been having a significant issue with my gas mileage since I took delivery on the car last year (last mileage check came in at a dismal 16mpg). There's a low end rattle / rumble that sounds like it's coming from the rear portion of the exhaust. A new catalytic converter came with the car (along with some other parts) even though the repair logs have the current one only being about 5 years old and I'm thinking that could be part of the fuel issue. Is there any way it could also be having an effect on or be tied to the other issue?

Thanks in advance for any assistance I can get!

[ernie9944]

Look like the abs connector to (see pic of the one on my 968) ,but I could be wrong.

[akaKJB]

I wondered about the ABS - the light's been on since the car landed here and the previous owner said it might need a new ABS relay. I'd say disconnecting the thing entirely is a slightly different issue.

[ernie9944]

Originally Posted by akaKJB

I wondered about the ABS - the light's been on since the car landed here and the previous owner said it might need a new ABS relay. I'd say disconnecting the thing entirely is a slightly different issue.

If the wires were hack the ligth will probably stay on permanently,as for your oil pressure gauge acting up I will start by checking the wires for loose connections on your oil pressure sender,see # 33 in the diagram.

[akaKJB]

What's weird is that when I started the car back up to make a run to the parts store, the ANTILOCK & "!" lights were both off. The oil pressure gauge shot straight to the top, tried to look like it was actually doing its job by dipping down to 4 for a few seconds.

I'll definitely check those connections - MANY thanks for posting the exploded view page so I know what I'm looking for and where to look for it.

BTW - You're probably the perfect person to talk to about going from a 944 to a 968. I really love my '87-S but the more I look at the 968's styling, the more I kinda want one. I almost started negotiating for one I'd found listed in Florida that would match everything on my list for the ideal 968 - 6-speed, dark blue with tan / lt. brown leather interior and NOT tricked out for track days. He was asking around $9k for it, which I thought was a little steep. Do you generally like yours? From the aspect of a daily driver, is there a significant difference in the ride and driving experience between a 944S and a 968?

[tamathumper]

Having owned both, I can attest the 968 even in stock trim is much better than the 944S, both off the line or just driving around with the AC on. If the car you looked at was in good condition with reasonable mileage, that was a good price, understanding that "good" and "reasonable" are open to interpretation.

[akaKJB]

Out of curiosity, what kind of gas mileage are you getting with your 968? That's kind of stuck in my head right now because of the awful mileage I've been getting in the "S".
I thought the price was a little steep based on other sales examples I'd found around that time. I think he would be willing to drop the price a little to kind of meet me halfway at $7500 or $8000 but there were just too many things going on all at once here that kept me from really pursuing it as much as I'd have liked. I'm keeping an eye out, though and hopefully will be able to jump all over a decent deal if / when it shows itself. Depending on the cash situation when another one makes an appearance, I may have to sell the 944S to finance the 968 (I'd like to keep both of them but the wife would probably have a small fit if I had two or more Porsche's in the driveway for any serious length of time.

Of course, I've never driven one so there is the slight chance I may not like it.........

Okay, forget the last half of the previous sentence. I couldn't type that with a straight face.

As for the 968 - I'm really looking for a daily driver so I'm fine if it's not in showroom condition but mechanically top notch.

[ernie9944]

akaKJB___ a word of caution buying a 968 at 7k to 8k,you'll probably buying yourself a money pit for that price,a decent shape 968 mechanicaly & easthetic wise should run 10k upward in the US, & a lot more in Canada.The 968 is a very different car than the 944S & maintenance /parts will be very expensive.So be carefull before handing your
money on a cheap 968.

[arominus]

Originally Posted by ernie9944

akaKJB___ a word of caution buying a 968 at 7k to 8k,you'll probably buying yourself a money pit for that price,a decent shape 968 mechanicaly & easthetic wise should run 10k upward in the US, & a lot more in Canada.The 968 is a very different car than the 944S & maintenance /parts will be very expensive.So be carefull before handing your
money on a cheap 968.

Its not that different, the tensioner is more expensive if it goes, as is the ISV but theres a lot of other similarity there.

I'd buy a cheap 968 just as i would buy a cheap S (i did actually). The 68 is an evolution of what the S started in the 16v motor and the 68 is an evolution of the S2 in the rest of the way.

If the car looks good have fun! watchout for that pinion bearing, the chain tensioner and rod bearings.

[ernie9944]

Originally Posted by arominus

Its not that different, the tensioner is more expensive if it goes, as is the ISV but theres a lot of other similarity there.

I'd buy a cheap 968 just as i would buy a cheap S (i did actually). The 68 is an evolution of what the S started in the 16v motor and the 68 is an evolution of the S2 in the rest of the way.

If the car looks good have fun! watchout for that pinion bearing, the chain tensioner and rod bearings.

.......excatly all parts that will cost you your eyes ball if they fail.

Yes cheap if you can DIY all the mechanical maintenance & mechanically incline have the tools & a garage to work in.

[akaKJB]

Well I'm so paranoid about this oil pressure / possible sending unit thing that I'm wondering if I should just go ahead and put my S on the market so I can begin a 968 hunt in earnest! LOL

Actually, I do have access to a shop & garage, it's just 3 hours away! My Dad's owned a service station / garage since about 1970 and he had to come to terms with the fact that I kept gravitating towards MG's (an MG B GT, to be specific), Triumphs (only actual convertible I've ever owned - it helped me decide I preferred targas or sunroofs), RX-7's, Preludes and the one that proved I was serious about it, my first Porsche (the one in my sig). Even a lifelong American car guy like my Dad had to admit my 1966 912/911 hybrid was just too cool for school! LOL My older brother is a great general mechanic - he's actually had factory training and instruction from just about every major manufacturer and is there to help out if I suddenly find myself in something beyond my current abilities. It also means I have access to the wholesale parts account. I'll look up the things you've both said to watch out for just to see what my cost would be. I do know that when I had to replace the clutch slave cylinder a few months ago, the part was only $40 or so, about the same cost (if not lower) as one for other manufacturer's cars.

Back to the oil pressure problem, I added a quart of oil (it was just a hair away from be on the lower line on the dipstick) and the red light at the bottom of the oil pressure indicator hasn't so much as flickered. Hopefully, that was all that needed.

I did do some checking of relays, etc. as suggested. I didn't get to all of the suggested bits to check on because I had to run the engine long enough that it got pretty hot. I'll get back to it once the engine's cooled back down. Running the engine after putting the oil in made me give in to my current oil system paranoia and pick out engine noises that were probably there before but I just hadn't noticed. With the hood open, I noticed a kind of scraping noise that sounded to me like a rotating metal part of some kind slightly touching more metal or perhaps something attached to the serpentine belt needed lubed.

I also noticed a fast, kind of quiet ticking noise that sounds like it's coming from the passenger side of the engine. I've heard similar sounds in other cars before but I really don't want to take any chances. Love this car and I'd be absolutely gutted if I ignorantly knackered the engine I guess worst case if I did lock the engine is that it being a 944-S, I could sell it and get enough to at least buy a 944 NA!

Here's a shot of my engine. Previous owner did things like take out the stock 944 air box and replace it with the turbo spec air filter. Looking through the records, it looks like this had a new Oil Pressure Sending Unit and an Oil Temp Sending Unit installed about 3 years ago. If these are the culprit I hope it's just a loose connection because these shouldn't go bad that quick.

[ernie9944]

Do you have any idea or records when the chain/ tensioner/upper & lower pads as been done,what worries me is the metal to metal noise.FYI those pads (that the chain ride on) are made of plastic,has the age they do get very brittle & can break,unlike the timing/balance shaft belts which should be done every four years or at around 40Kmiles (the pads-chain-tensioner has no set mileage for being done.But 95% of 16V owners either 944S/ S2 or 968 do agree that they should be look at between 80-90K miles.If they do break most of the time it will cause very severe head damage,get yourself a small piece of pipe put it against the valve cover & try to locate where the sound is coming from.

[ernie9944]

Here is a pics of what lie under you valves cover.Notice the pad shown by the red arrow there is two the upper one & lower one which you can't see.The one your looking at are healthy.In the next pics you will see what happen when they break causing the chain to collapse doing damage to the tensioner
& in the worse case scenario damaging your head.Now take it easy & don't chew your fingers off ,the sound migth be cause by something else entirely,but try to find out if those pads has been change lately because it's a weak point in the 16V.

[akaKJB]

I really appreciate your help and the visual aids.

Paging through the records going back as far as 2011 and boy oh boy, this car must have been seriously used & abused. After going through all of these records, I'm starting to feel like someone that's taken in a rescue dog.

In 2011, the owner took it to their local Porsche mechanic with the complaint being that it was "running poorly". Here's what the repair invoice said:

Intake cam out of time. Removed cams; re-timed. Repaired Tensioner pad. Remove & replace broken cam cover bolts. Repaired damaged threads to several head related bolts. Checked Front Cover & noise from belt - lower balance shaft belt adjustment sprocket had been previously replaced by original owner and had smooth sprocket; replaced with toothed sprocket. Adjusted timing & balance belts. 4 spark plugs were also replaced.

The following parts were ordered from a specialty firm in Florida and I believe most of them are currently on the vehicle. Some were obviously for the shop doing the diagnosing and repair:

1 Motor Mount / Power Friction Clutch Disc / Ignition Wire Lead Set / Distributor Cap & Rotor / 4 Bosch spark plugs / balance shaft belt / oil filter /Oil Pressure Sending Unit /Oil Temp Sending Unit / Pilot Bearing / Timing Belt / Heater Hose / Power Steering Belt / Air Conditioner - Alternator Belt / Porsche Clutch Kit

In 2012, same owner bought a new Catalytic Converter but I don't think he ever had it installed as there was a new-in-the-box Cat Conv among the spare parts in the back of the vehicle when it was delivered.

January 2013: New owner orders a new V-Belt and some special order bushing sleeve, washer, hex head screws. By April of 2013, the vehicle has yet another new owner, the person I bought it from in July, 2013. Had I known some of this, I might have passed on it or at least negotiated on the price a little harder.

[akaKJB]

Hoo-Kay - A friend came by this morning and we got to play "Can You Hear It Now?"

After inserting a broomstick handle in an ear, we both took turns localizing where & what we were hearing and we both agreed pretty quick that the clicking sound is most likely a loose or slightly sticky lifter.

We both concur on the metal noise. It's definitely something underneath that cover for the chain & serpentine belts. Couldn't pull it apart to verify today because of the weather conditions. I think I'm going to inventory the spares that came with the car to see how many of the belts, pads, etc. I have on hand and call the parts store for the rest. If I'm going to open her up, I'm just gonna replace everything I possibly can so there's no question whatsoever regarding their maintenance status. If it goes well and I'm feeling really ballsy, I might just have a go at that lifter noise. I think I'm also just going to replace the Oil Sending Unit as well for the same reasons I'm changing everything possible under that plastic cover. Might as well do it while I'm already up to my elbows in Stuttgart engineering.

So, just how difficult should this operation be? Just looking over some of the manuals, it doesn't look like it should be impossible for a "knows just enough to be dangerous to himself / the car / the family / the postal district" level mechanic. If there's something in this that's insane for me to even think about tackling myself, please let me know!

[ernie9944]

If your gone to fool around under the valve cover & try to replace the pads you better read this DIY before you start.Google forum.rennlist.com/.../diy.../600465-diy-chain-tensio or Rennlist DIY tensioner and pads on Porsche 944S2 Procedure will be the same for both S & S2.

[akaKJB]

Originally Posted by ernie9944

If your gone to fool around under the valve cover & try to replace the pads you better read this DIY before you start.Google forum.rennlist.com/.../diy.../600465-diy-chain-tensio or Rennlist DIY tensioner and pads on Porsche 944S2 Procedure will be the same for both S & S2.

For some reason, the forum software truncated the url in your post. Can we create links in our posts? I've never had to try it so I have no idea.

Trust me, I'm not allowing one bolt, pulley, screw, clamp or anything else to be touched until my friend and I are 110% certain we know what we have to do and how we're going to do it. I'm actually kind of looking forward to it because I really like doing some work on my vehicles, even if it's just intensive maintenance of some kind or installing a new stereo - another reason I actually look for some of the less expensive examples of cars like this one and (hopefully) my eventual 968. I think the majority of people would take better care of their autos and even take a little pride in them if they would just do things like oil changes. Anybody with a decent sized wallet can buy a cool car and then keep throwing money at it to keep it on the road. Finding a car you really like, maybe for a little less money (let's face it - everybody likes to get a deal) that you do some work on is a whole different (and, in my opinion, better) experience.

I'm just happy that it looks like something that I can probably deal with at this level and not something that requires handing her over to a Porsche Master of Mechanical Dark Arts.

I'll definitely let you guys know how it goes!

[akaKJB]

Work on this got kind of held up thanks to an unexpected hospital stay. However, my friend and I did pull the cover and couldn't believe some of what we saw. Most of the plugs were about half turn from falling out - tightened those down, checked the chain, tensioner, etc. and all of that looks great. All of the stuff that was on the parts invoices that had been installed prior to my purchase looked to be in good nick - cleaned a bit of excess grunge buildup that's probably a result of oil making it out of the loose fittings. The metal on metal noise is starting to look like a rogue exhaust hanger. Have to find time to raise the car and get a good look underneath to verify & replace.

Still having an issue with the oil gauge or something attached to it, though. When I start the car, it jumps straight to the top. As I drive, it does the bouncing routine. If I put my foot into it for any reason and spend as little as a minute or two just below the red zone, the Oil Pressure warning light comes on. While driving, the light can get to a point where it flickers so I'm not as optimistic as I had been about it being some sort of benign fault, like gauge failure. Anybody have any ideas?

[akaKJB]

Quick update -

After going through the connections in the engine compartment, I took her out initially just to drive it around a few blocks but cruising down some nice, really dark side streets in a corporate area close to here, we found ourselves at an on ramp to one of the local highways that connects the metro area to Lawrence and KU, meaning that the posted 75MPH speed limit is easily abused with most drivers hitting triple digits for some part of their drive.

I've been a little worried about some of the possible issues since I took delivery of the car so consequently, she's never really been opened up. I've gotten her up to nice RPMs in lower gears around town and pushed the handling and suspension but this is really the first opportunity I've had to open her up, so I did.

I love that transition point where it looks / feels like you're just winding the engine up but somewhere around the middle of the tach I could feel the car just kind of grab hold and push higher, suddenly like it was nothing. It definitely felt and drove like this is where it wanted to be spending most of its time.

Anyway, the oil gauge seemed to perform like it's supposed to. Depending on what I was doing, the pressure would go as low as between 2 & 3 and all the way up to just a bit over 5. In fact, everything seemed to be working like it should and had me chastising myself for ever considering selling her - I could happily drive this car for the rest of my life.

The only puzzling bit was after I pulled into my driveway after a couple of hours of testing & playing. Putting the car into neutral and letting it idle as I set the handbrake and all of that end-of-drive stuff, the oil pressure sat well over the 5 with the red light at the bottom glowing solidly. The idle was nice and steady, rock solid at 1x. I gave it some gas and the needle dropped back down into the area it belonged while the red light flickerd a bit before going out completely as I was just below 2x on the tach. Letting the engine return to its pre-programmed idle brought both issues right back. Looking under the hood, I didn't see any issues so I went ahead and shut it down. Starting it up again just a fe minutes ago, it's just like it was earlier, before I took it out for the drive. Am I too concerned about this? I really intend to keep & drive this car for a very long time (unless I find the 968 of my dreams and have to sell it to help finance the purchase; ideally, I have enough on hand that I can have BOTH! :-D ). I intend to make some interior modifications, things I've designed that ultimately will hopefully be offered to fellow 944 / 924 / 968 /928 owners in the near future but want the stuff from Porsche to be as rock solid as the aftermarket things I'm designing for their customers.

As always, many thanks in advance for any help I get!

[kdjones2000]

Keep in mind that the oil pressure gauge and the oil pressure light work off of two separate circuits.

The sender is one unit, but there are 2 things inside of it, one for the gauge, the other for the light. These senders are known to partially or fully die on a regular basis.

I would just get a new one and see what changes, if anything. If you still get the same behaviour, then I would be worried.

Good luck..