My NEWB question thread

[2mAn]

Hey guys, I have a full 944S motor and drivetrain Im using for a project car Im building, which you can see here. I have never owned a 944 (though Ive come close several times). Anyways, I have a whole setup and I have a whole bunch of questions. Rather than make a million "what is this" threads, Im going to just keep the first post updated with questions. I appreciate the help of this forum, I found the S motor here and you guys have already helped me quite a bit.

-Simon

Question #1
- Is there a gasket between where the torque tube and the bellhousing?

Question #2
- Is the rear subframe mount supposed to be horizontal?

[dgcantrell]

No gasket between the bell housing and torque tube.. Horizontal on the bushing. But here are two diagrams. A picture is worth a 1000 words, I say.

[2mAn]

I didnt mean to respond so late, though I did see the reply immediately. Thank you so much!

Next round of questions is in regards to the crossover of the torque tube and the transmission. There's two angled V things (technical term) that seem to be crossed over each other. How do they mount in relation to each other?

[Arizona_928]

What are you trying to replace?

[2mAn]

Originally Posted by AZ_porschekid

What are you trying to replace?

Nothing, Im in the process of building a tube frame car and I have the entire 944S drivetrain. Just trying to figure out how a few things sit in relation to one another

[2mAn]

Originally Posted by 2mAn

Next round of questions is in regards to the crossover of the torque tube and the torsion beam. There's two angled V things (technical term) that seem to be crossed over each other. How do they mount in relation to each other?

Bump, edited the question since it doesn't quite make sense. Still looking got answers. Thanks

[Rasta Monsta]

Hmm, the only "V" things that spring to mind are a safety measure to keep the driveline in place in an accident. If the assembly moves forward, they catch on a small alloy crosspiece mounted in the tub.

[911tracker85]

yep, doing my rear suspension and I had to grind off a little of the flange tips on my torsion bar tube to get it off.

If the assembly moves forward, they catch on a small alloy crosspiece mounted in the tub.

I saw that cross piece, does not look strong enough to me to stop much. looks more like just floor pan bracing.

to me it looks like the torque tube flange will catch on the torsion bar tube in a rear hit to stop the tranny from going forward. as well as another set of flanges on the torque tube in front that would help stop the engine from being pushed backward in a hard front end hit.

that torsion bar tube bolts to the frame and takes a lot of force from the torsion bars, so really strong.

first pic of the torsion bar tube I pulled to remove the torsion bars, going coil over and upgrading bushings, showing where I ground off the tips to get it off. and a pic from when I did my clutch of the torque tube flanges, it looks like that was after I had rotated the torque tube 180 degrees to slide the torque tube back to pull the clutch, so the flange looks like it is on top, but in the correct position they would be on the bottom. you can barely make out those front torque tube flanges behind the connector hanging down. ironically it looks like PET does not show those flanges.

on your pic the torque tube is in the correct orientation, so you do not see those flanges as they are on the bottom.

last pic of the torsion bar tube, you can see those flanges right in the middle.

interesting, tube frame build..... dang and I thought doing a complete tear down and tub up restore on my 930 was a big job.

good luck and I'll be peeking in on your posts.

[Rasta Monsta]

Originally Posted by 911tracker85

I saw that cross piece, does not look strong enough to me to stop much.

Well, it does have the help of torsion carrier mounts, trans mounts, and engine mounts. Plus, it's attached to the tub with four beefy bolts.

[2mAn]

Originally Posted by 911tracker85

interesting, tube frame build..... dang and I thought doing a complete tear down and tub up restore on my 930 was a big job.

good luck and I'll be peeking in on your posts.

thanks for the detailed response, I guess I dont need to worry about it as much as I was.

Also, I updated the first post with a link to the project for those who want to see more.

Next question is in regards to motor mounts. It doesnt seem like theres many options out there. What is recommended

[DannoXYZ]

Originally Posted by Rasta Monsta

Well, it does have the help of torsion carrier mounts, trans mounts, and engine mounts. Plus, it's attached to the tub with four beefy bolts.

Once assembled, the ears on the torque-tube actually won't hit the alloy cross-piece. As shown in the pic, it'll connect with the ears on the torsion-bar carrier. Those beefy ears are oriented in-line with impact forces and will take significant force before bending or shearing.

[yundar]

Checked out your build thread. This is super cool!!! Good Luck, Andy.

[Rasta Monsta]

After checking out your lo-cost thread, it occurred to me that you'll be needing this: http://www.944spec.com/944SPEC/technical-articles/42-torsion-bar-re-indexing

[2mAn]

I feel safe asking a dumb question here, as this is my NEWB thread, but what exactly does that measure? torsion bar "spring" rate? Am I changing something because the car will weigh significantly less than a 944?

[2mAn]

Bump for a response to that torsion bar spring rate question, but also I have a new one.

Which bolt & nut combo is correct? The one inside the mount is a little longer.



They both fit and somehow I only have one of each in my 944 nuts & bolts box. And with that said, who has an extra nut & bolt they would like to donate to my project?

[2mAn]

bump for answers

[2mAn]

am i limited to how many questions you guys will answer for me?

[emoore924]

what exactly does that measure? torsion bar "spring" rate?

No, it sets the ride height for a particular torsion bar. So, a torsion bar is just a coil spring but uncoiled. For the rear suspension of a 924/944, you have to "index" the torsion bar so the ride height is correct -- there are splines on the ends of the bar and if you don't insert the splines correctly, the car will be too high or too low once you put it down on the ground.

As you might expect, torsion bars with larger diameters have higher spring rates. So, when you change torsion bars from smaller to larger diameters (going from lower to higher spring rates), the old "indexing" strategy won't work -- the spline indexing you would use for the smaller bar would make the heavier bar keep the rear too high. So, you use the spreadsheet to figure the proper "indexing"...

Capiche?

Oh, I can't see the other bolt but I like the bolt that's a-x the top of the mount. The unthreaded collar doesn't extend beyond the bushing.

[2mAn]

Originally Posted by emoore924

No, it sets the ride height for a particular torsion bar. So, a torsion bar is just a coil spring but uncoiled. For the rear suspension of a 924/944, you have to "index" the torsion bar so the ride height is correct -- there are splines on the ends of the bar and if you don't insert the splines correctly, the car will be too high or too low once you put it down on the ground.

As you might expect, torsion bars with larger diameters have higher spring rates. So, when you change torsion bars from smaller to larger diameters (going from lower to higher spring rates), the old "indexing" strategy won't work -- the spline indexing you would use for the smaller bar would make the heavier bar keep the rear too high. So, you use the spreadsheet to figure the proper "indexing"...

Capiche?

Oh, I can't see the other bolt but I like the bolt that's a-x the top of the mount. The unthreaded collar doesn't extend beyond the bushing.

Im starting to understand the torsion bars, thanks for the explanation.

I will try to get a better picture, but the one thats across the top does seem to be the right one. Now I just need to get my hands on a second one

[2mAn]

Ok, next question as the frame build will start expanding. The rear mount seem to sit at an angle. Is that correct or are they also supposed to be flat?