Handling comparison between 944 & 911

[1QuickS]

I'm still getting familiar with my 1988 944S which will become my new toy after I sell my 67S hot rod. My 67 weighs 2000 lbs & has a 210 HP 2.3 liter engine and has Delrin/shperical bushing suspension pivots, re-valved Konis & revised spring rates. It is visceral & quick.

The 944 has yellow Konis, 7" & 9" rims with stiffer springs & sway bars. It feels fat & lazy on the road.

I'm thinking a diet to remove weight & installation of polybronze bushings & other low compliance suspension goodies to improve responsiveness.

Comments from owners of sports purpose 911s who also own a 944 with suspension upgrades would be greatly appreciated for the comparative comments between the two cars.

[petrolhead611]

You will have to get rid of a huge amount of weight to get it down to the same weight as your old 911. You bought the wrong model of 944, should have been a Turbo if you wanted equivalent power to weight. The 944 is from a different era to the original 911; the 944 shell has crash resistance in built which is heavy in itself, has more toys than an early 911, has slightly usable rear seats, and considerably bigger trunk. What did you actually expect?

[1QuickS]

What did you actually expect?

Something a little more responsive than what I have. My 911 is too much for general driving, not to mention it is a "collector car & garage queen" so a tweeked 944 should fit somewhere in-between hot rod 911 & stock 944.

[DannoXYZ]

It also comes down to how you define "handling". The '88 Automobile mag article reviewing the '88 911 Turbo vs '88 944 TurboS is pretty good for comparing their handling. Subjective driver-impressions along with objective track racing. The 944 TurboS was 2-seconds/lap faster than the 911 Turbo when driven by Derek Bell. That's about 1 football-field ahead each lap; a significant difference. And the 911 Turbo had superior power-to-weight as well. However, that doesn't affect braking or cornering.

I don't think you'll ever get the front-end responsiveness of a 911 in a 944 due to the difference in weight-distribution. The larger polar moment-of-inertia with the engine & trans at opposite ends lead to great stability at high-speeds, but slows down turn-in response. This of course, is a very subjective area and personal preference.

[OPRN]

There shouldn't be that much difference between the weight of the two cars, my bone stock '83 944 weighs in at 2175 pounds. Throw out the spare tire and buy some Plexiglas and you could beat the 911's weight.

Originally Posted by DannoXYZ

I don't think you'll ever get the front-end responsiveness of a 911 in a 944 due to the difference in weight-distribution. The larger polar moment-of-inertia with the engine & trans at opposite ends lead to great stability at high-speeds, but slows down turn-in response. This of course, is a very subjective area and personal preference.

Thanks for that! It's exactly what my gut feeling has been on the subject, good to hear it from you too!

[Rasta Monsta]

Originally Posted by OPRN

my bone stock '83 944 weighs in at 2175 pounds.

Is that like, Canadian pounds?

[flash968]

lol - yeah - that one caught me too. a few hundred short

as for handling, let's make sure we are using the right terms. there is a big difference between handling and cornering. handling is how a car handles weight transfer and transitions. cornering is how well a car goes around a corner.

[OPRN]

Canadian pounds are called kilograms!
I weighed the car with me in it one axle at a time on the truck scale on the highway. 500kg on the front axle, 510kg on the rear axle for a total of 1010kg. 2.204 pounds /kg=2226lbs minus me at 240lbs is actually 1986lbs.
Hmm! Got a different result this time.
What do your 944s weigh?

[racer]

Originally Posted by 1QuickS

I'm still getting familiar with my 1988 944S which will become my new toy after I sell my 67S hot rod. My 67 weighs 2000 lbs & has a 210 HP 2.3 liter engine and has Delrin/shperical bushing suspension pivots, re-valved Konis & revised spring rates. It is visceral & quick.

The 944 has yellow Konis, 7" & 9" rims with stiffer springs & sway bars. It feels fat & lazy on the road.

I'm thinking a diet to remove weight & installation of polybronze bushings & other low compliance suspension goodies to improve responsiveness.

Comments from owners of sports purpose 911s who also own a 944 with suspension upgrades would be greatly appreciated for the comparative comments between the two cars.

What are the current spring rates? What size tires?

I came from track prepped 914's and 911SC.

I found my 944 to be very neutral, even stock, but soft. For AX I had to learn to slow down my inputs and give the car time to respond. Once I relearned how to drive it stock it was fun again (but yes, heavy).

I had an opportunity along the way to drive an older prepped 944. IIRC, the car ran 250# springs and 30mm tbs with M030 sways from either a 944T or 968. Night and day difference, but still didn't beat you up on the road.

It is a very different car than your early 911 (or 914) due to the weight and limited power. That said, there are TONS of upgrades available due to the 944 race series. want 600# springs? done. Want double adjustable shocks? done.

imho, while keeping it comfy on the street, you aren't going to pull more than 100# out of it easily. The structure of the body is just a lot heavier than your 911.


As to OPRN, US spec 944's are 2650-2900lbs.

[1QuickS]

I think it is the high polar moment that has me put-off so much; that and the weight.

[OPRN]

You guys are correct, just checked the owner's manual and it says the curb weight is 2778lbs. The truck scale on the highway is out to lunch!

[dgcantrell]

I weighed mine on the truck scales at the coal company I used to work for many moons ago when I weighed about 225 (man, I wish I could get back to that again LOL) and me and the car weighed in just shy of 2900lbs. These scales had recently been calibrated by the VA Deparment of Weights and Measures about an hour before so they WERE dead on the money accurate or they would have shut the scales down.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by 1QuickS

I'm still getting familiar with my 1988 944S which will become my new toy after I sell my 67S hot rod. My 67 weighs 2000 lbs & has a 210 HP 2.3 liter engine and has Delrin/shperical bushing suspension pivots, re-valved Konis & revised spring rates. It is visceral & quick.

The 944 has yellow Konis, 7" & 9" rims with stiffer springs & sway bars. It feels fat & lazy on the road.

I'm thinking a diet to remove weight & installation of polybronze bushings & other low compliance suspension goodies to improve responsiveness.

Comments from owners of sports purpose 911s who also own a 944 with suspension upgrades would be greatly appreciated for the comparative comments between the two cars.

thats because the 944 is ~900lbs heavier.

if you want that feeling, i'd keep the 67. making a 944 feel that way will be tough to do.

my mr2 smokes my 944 in handling (so does my miata). 944 is a far better cruiser though.

[CatsEyes]

I've had a 911 and two 944s (in sequence) for the last 3-4 years. I find I have to adjust my driving techniques radically between the two cars, every times I switch. Polar opposite in some ways.

My 944 is set up for street rather than track, and the tyres are lousy (so few choices here in 15", and I love my Fuchs!), so it's probably not a fair comparison. But yes, the 944's handling initially feels very soft and squishy after the 911. And the steering not nearly as crisp. Much more GT, as it were.

My simple rule of thumb for adjusting to the 944 after having driven the 911: enter corners in the 911 without any throttle, turn-in throttle-less, and apply throttle progressively through the corner, noting the apex.

But in the 944 brake well before the corner, and accelerate through it, continuously. The more throttle, the better she corners!

That way the two cars are both fun, each in their very different way.

Of course, more knowledgeable people here will probably have much better technical suggestions...

[wayner]

Try measuring the weight of that rear glass separately!

[Rasta Monsta]

Must disagree with cat...944 loves to trailbrake.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[TibetanT]

I have never, ever asked a woman what she weighs.

[thomasryan]

..or tell them, 'don't eat that'

[Tervuren]

Originally Posted by Rasta Monsta

Must disagree with cat...944 loves to trailbrake.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

I've owned and driven multiple 944's, early, late, 3.0L, etc.

They each had their own driving style, on top of different options or modifications, is the general wear the car has gone through.

If you really want to crispen the car, add a X brace between the rear seat belt points, add a lower and upper front strut tower brace. The factory alignment is incredibly docile settings for the front, give it a little camber, an remove front toe-in to the point of near neutral.

After the above is done, see what you may need to do for wheel rates sway bars, and shocks.