Block stored 20 years with piston in, good/bad?

[Danglerb]

Noticed this on ebay, a new 79 block stored 20 years with the pistons in the cylinders, is that good or bad? I'm guessing bad from the overall look.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320186850413

[911blex]

I am think it might not be a bad deal since it is only a short block. IMO, it would be a different story if this was a fully assembled engine that had 20 year-old fluids in it.

Just my $.02

[rhjames]

not great-----

no crank, rods, or bearings.

m-a-y-be no rings either....?


$$$ for a 4.5L block and pistons is way too high.

(I've got one here at the house with a new set of Euro pistons that I'd be tempted to let go for the same price he's asking.......)


--Russ

[rich]

Excuse my ignorance. but I didn't see where the ad stated the engine is a 4.5 Aren't those 4.7 euro "S" pistons? I need to look at my manual on CD, but I thought 4.5 pistons looked different that 4.7 "S" style.

The block is fitted with later gold head studs.

[Danglerb]

78/79 were all 4.5L. Not much market for a 4.5, local guy has one fully rebuilt by a good local shop with an asking price of $900 last I looked. Kibort hasn't been able to sell the 4.7L motor he rebuilt either. Not that much looking turns up a running complete intake to exhaust motor for around $500, and if you want performance spend the money for a Euro or hybrid.

Without dancing around it too much, most OB owners are pretty cheap.

[rhjames]

that one that is advertised has Euro pistons in it.

but it's just a block and pistons---no rods or crank.

--Russ

[Danglerb]

Whats the difference between a Euro and US 4.5L piston?

The chart I have from I think 928gt.com shows 78/79 us and euro as 8.5:1, then US goes to 9.0 and Euro to 10.0, but doesn't say if its piston or heads.

Link to some pictures would be good.

[rich]

I looked at my manual on CD but it didn't picture the 4.5 piston shapes. Only the 4.7 US and euro.

I tried to ask the seller what the block # (M28/??) was but the auction ended. Unless the all 4.5 pistons were notched and flat topped like the 4.7 euro "S" pistons I think that was a euro "S" engine.

Still, the auction had a reserve and an opening bid of $ 850.00. It's likely the the seller was looking for a grand without a crank or any other stuff for a 4.5-4.7.... Now if it were a new euro 5.0.....

[Danglerb]

That auction was for a non S 4.5.

I think somebody built a 5.4 using 968 pistons and a standard crank.

[rhjames]

d---

difference in compression ratio's is in the piston---not the head.

if I remember correctly, US and Euro 4.5L use the same head.

Euro 4.7 is where it all changed.

like I've said before, I've got a brand new in box set of 4.5L Euro pistons w/rings (high compression) that would make a killer 4.5L for $500 if some one needed them......top that with a 4.5L short block that I' have, and $750 could get it all.

but then again....you just about can't give this stuff away.

how sad......

--Russ

[rhjames]

here's the difference you seek........

because of the camera flash, it is difficult to see the "dome" on the 'Euro' piston, but I can assure you it is significant.


4.5L US spec short block

notice the dished piston tops (before I wiped them with a rag). this is the same piston that the early 4.5L Euro engine uses at 8.5:1 CR.




4.5L US spec short block, with 4.5L "Euro" piston (10:1 CR) inserted. Notice the dome on the Euro piston, and the dish on the US piston (after I wiped it with a rag).



Now, a 4.5L Euro piston next to my 5.0L 32V piston that has been notched of 16V use.




hope this shows you what you were searching for-----

--Russ

[rhjames]

I've tried to show the dome on these pistons, but the shine keeps hiding the difference in piston topography.

maybe on these pics you can see it.....

as far as I know, all 4.5L Euro's used this same piston on years 80-82

Rich---

the engine in question could not have used the Euro "S" piston (4.7L), because it does not fit (without overboring).....remember, this is advertized as a 4.5L block. With out piston #s, no one can say for sure, but my guess is this one just has the Euro 4.5L pistons.......

---Russ

[Danglerb]

Thanks Russ, I think I see the dome, at least enough that next time I have a piston in front of me I will know what to look for.

[rhjames]

yep, I went back and checked head numbers as well, just as I suspected. same head number for 4.5L US and Euro's, and 4.7L US. Euro "S" got the big valve heads only. Therefore, no changing heads for smaller combustion chambers to up the CR.

I was pretty sure all of that was correct, but had to do a refresher course....

it's all in the pistons----D.

--Russ

[rhjames]

problem with doing this stuff from memory is..... I have a bad memory.....

looking at the ad again, hopefully for the last time, Rich may very well be correct about it being a '80 plus 4.7L Euro block/pistons.

the pistons are flat topped, and since it's been a while from the last time a cracked open a M28/11, this may be the deal.

if you read the ad closer, you will see he didn't specify what year or size the block is----only that it was bought to replace a 77-79 engine.....that's what threw me off.

I withdraw any criticism towards Rich about his diagnosis----he may just be correct??

anyway, it's something to think about....

--Russ

[Danglerb]

The number on the block 928 101 905 01 matches up to a 78/79 remanufactured block.

[MPDano]

Originally Posted by Danglerb

78/79 were all 4.5L. Not much market for a 4.5, local guy has one fully rebuilt by a good local shop with an asking price of $900 last I looked. Kibort hasn't been able to sell the 4.7L motor he rebuilt either. Not that much looking turns up a running complete intake to exhaust motor for around $500, and if you want performance spend the money for a Euro or hybrid.

Without dancing around it too much, most OB owners are pretty cheap.

Whos this local guy with the engine?

[Danglerb]

Engine is in Costa Mesa, CA if that is local to you, PM me with a email address and I will pass it on to him. Your down in San Diego with the Euro 79? From what I have read on your car it isn't the engine that is bad is it, its the fuel system etc? This rebuilt engine is a long block, but no intake or fuel injection.

[rich]

OK, I agree the block # listed is a replacement block # for a 78-79 928.

But the pistons shown are not 4.5 US or euro. The pistons shown are 4.7 "S" flat tops. Is it possible the factory replacement for the 78-79 was up-rated to the euro "S" short block as they phased out the 4.5 displacement?

In any event, the 4.7 (even the "S" ) is not on the top of the desirable list. For that amount of money (no rods, crank, pump, pickup, oil pan,etc.) you could get a good 5.0 short block for a hybred.

I'd pay $350.00 shipped.

[Danglerb]

I think its about $500 to ship a block much distance. 928Intl has 5.0 Short blocks for about $1000, which seems fair enough to me. I've barely missed a couple complete engines for $500, but when the time comes that I "need" a short block, I'll just buy one from 928Intl if I haven't found one.

*** US 85/86 5.0L

**** zero interest in anything 4.5L