New Crankcase Breather Scrubber System - Page 2

Louie928 · 08-12-2009, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrendanC

At one time, was the idea not to use all four Cam cover breathers as INTAKES and have good vacuum coming out from the main front area over the oil filler?

I'm still not properly picturing what is being done with the four breathers on the cam covers and which way they are plumbed. The ideal is to have none of this plumbed into the intake, correct? Especially for boosted motors.

Brendan,
Once the blowby gasses are properly vented from the crankcase, it becomes not too important what you do with the cam cover vents. Plug some of them or all, feed them to the ProVent input like on Dave Roberts' SharkVent, or let fresh air go into them. One thing to consider is that the combustion byproducts contain water and acids. How do you get those out of the engine? One way is to admit (clean) fresh air to the cam cover vents to flush those contaminants out of the engine. There are different ways to get the fresh air to flow into the cam cover vents. 1) Extract the blowby from the ProVent outlet so air can enter the cam cover vents. Several options have been discussed. Draft tube under the car; use the air pump; exhaust system vacuum port; feed the cam cover vents from air entering the intake system through a pitot type inlet (like John Kuhn's) or from general ram air pressure in the air box like I do. 2) Use a bleed orifice from the crankcase outlet/ProVent input back to the engine intake system similar to how the original system works. I'd prefer something from the 1) option so as to not contaminate the engine intake system with crankcase blowby.

Alan in AZ · 02:25 PM

Louie - what are your thoughts specifically about getting water vapor out.

Assuming the use of a secondary air/oil seperator after the scrubber - do these both have the effect of seperating out & draining both the oil and water back into the pan? is the use of a secondary seperator overkill anyway?

Are the scrubber & (e.g.) Provent likely to have the same effect on water vapor entrapment in the crank? any options?

Alan

Normy · 08-12-2009, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herr-Kuhn

Louie doesn't port the other breathers into the outlet. My reasoning for that was to allow any blow by that got past my valve guides and seals (turbo runs some exhaust back pressure) to have a way out without having to go back through the sump.

NOW I get why you and Carl over at 928 Motorsports are trying so hard to run breather lines over to the cam covers!

Pardon me for being a novice....but I installed Carl's kit, and left out the hoses to the cam covers. Maybe that is why I continue to find 1/2 teaspoon of oil in the bottom of my "U" whenever I clean my MAF contacts. I never thought that valve guide blow-by would be an issue; I stand corrected.

N

Louie928 · 08-12-2009, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan in AZ

Louie - what are your thoughts specifically about getting water vapor out.

Assuming the use of a secondary air/oil seperator after the scrubber - do these both have the effect of seperating out & draining both the oil and water back into the pan? is the use of a secondary seperator overkill anyway?

Are the scrubber & (e.g.) Provent likely to have the same effect on water vapor entrapment in the crank? any options?

Alan

Alan,
We have to assume you are not one of the people who, to be kind to their engine, starts it and lets it run for a while and shuts it off. This is most likely to happen in the winter or when the car isn't run for a while. This is not a good thing to do as the oil never gets hot enough to evaporate the water. The oil thermostat opens at around 200F to shunt oil through the cooler and within 10 miles the oil temp is at around 210. In the summer on a longer drive, it'll get to 225+. Higher if you go up a hill. Even the 200F temp will evaporate water in the oil fairly quickly and this water vapor will pass out through the scrubber and ProVent. I've never seen the tell tale milky white residue inside the ProVent so I don't think it collects there. Get the oil hot and keep it hot for a while and you shouldn't have water condensation. I do think it is important to pass fresh air into the crankcase to flush it out, but beyond that I don't think it would be a problem. I think a secondary scrubber is a good idea, but it is easy to add if you still get some oil after the primary one in the filler hole. I have the primary scrubber on two engines. One on my 6.5L GT and another 5.0L twin screw SC GT engine. Both pass a little oil from the primary scrubber into the secondary air/oil separator or ProVent. No oil of significance after the secondary separator.

Alan in AZ · 08-12-2009, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Louie928

Alan,
We have to assume you are not one of the people who, to be kind to their engine, starts it and lets it run for a while and shuts it off.

No I'm not THAT kind to it... hah! In Phoenix I worry more about the oil getting too hot - glad to hear the H2O vapor transistions the scrubbers effectively in practice. That was perhaps the biggest concern I had.

I do really like the idea of ~constant flushing with fresh air and given that all my blow-by plus a good deal of oil is currently being ingested - I can live with just the blow-by ingestion.

Alan

Louie928 · 08-12-2009, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Normy

NOW I get why you and Carl over at 928 Motorsports are trying so hard to run breather lines over to the cam covers!

Pardon me for being a novice....but I installed Carl's kit, and left out the hoses to the cam covers. Maybe that is why I continue to find 1/2 teaspoon of oil in the bottom of my "U" whenever I clean my MAF contacts. I never thought that valve guide blow-by would be an issue; I stand corrected.

N

Don't worry a lot about the cam covers not being vented on your engine. Any leakage past the exhaust valve guides will go down the head oil drain passages and end up in the crankcase where they'll vent out your "hopefully really large" crankcase vent. The oil in your "U" is because you still have blowby + thrown oil venting into your intake probably through the hoses in the base of the oil filler.

rhjames · rhjames's Garage

I'd be happy to not have ANY blowby......

--Russ

Louie928 · 08-13-2009, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhjames

I'd be happy to not have ANY blowby......

--Russ

Yeah, it can really make a mess of your shorts.

Dozman · 08-13-2009, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhjames
I'd be happy to not have ANY blowby......

--Russ

Yeah, it can really make a mess of your shorts.
__________________
Louis Ott

LOL, I don't care who you are...Now thats some funny stuff.

sonett3 · 08-13-2009, 11:30 AM

Lol

rhjames · rhjames's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Louie928

Yeah, it can really make a mess of your shorts.

--Russ

Alan in AZ · 08-14-2009, 10:15 AM

John - how soon do you think you can have the first ones fabbed up? I'm looking to have the intake off for refinishing in a week or so - want to know if I can get one fo these in before it goes back together.

Alan

jthwan22 · 08-15-2009, 02:00 PM

I want one too

Herr-Kuhn · 08-16-2009, 02:40 AM

Thanks for all the feedback guys. It will likely be the week after next before I have them done. I plan to rework the cad files today and send them over to the laser cutters in the AM. Then they have to be tigged up and finished. I think I'm going to go in on 15 of them this round.

2Quick4u928 · 08-16-2009, 05:29 AM

Quote:

Great product......put me down for one too!!!!! send an email to..... with your billing-paypal info!

John, I 2nd Iceman, lampltr@bww.com thanks

jthwan22 · 08-16-2009, 09:52 AM

This goes under oil filler neck, right?

hitman3 · hitman3's Garage

i have a 928 1978 any one know were the breder is in my car pic pls

MPDano · MPDano's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by hitman3

i have a 928 1978 any one know were the breder is in my car pic pls

It's under the Oil (OEL) filler thingy bopper.

Herr-Kuhn · 08-25-2009, 03:34 PM

Guys...I've had a bit of an emergency here. My wife got really sick last week and as a result they had to deliver our baby girl at 26 weeks. My wife Colleen is still in the hospital and baby Claudia will likely be here until December. She was just 1 lb 4 oz when she was born.

It's going to be a little while before I have the scrubbers done...probably 2-3 weeks or so. I'll probably farm out the welding so I can get them finished for you guys.

Sorry so short...lots to do here and focused on getting my wife home safe this week. She's had a real rough time in all of this.

MPDano · MPDano's Garage

Family First! Period! Good luck. Hope all gets better with the newborn.