Clear coat varnish application to the engine... ?

[Marc964]

Good morning..
Recently a Porsche 911/964 had its engine/transmission dismounted and lowered, the two elements were split and a new Porsche clutch kit was installed. Taking advantage of the engine’s easy to get accessibility and at the same time having the total accessibility to the engine-less engine bay, my question is the following:

Would you, as air-cooled engine Porschists completely spray:

TRANSPARENT PLASTIC/ ACRYLIC, FAST DRYING, CLEAR COAT VARNISH THAT IS WATER RESISTANT, GAS RESISTANT, EVEN DETERGENT RESISTANT TO THE ENTIRE ENGINE INCLUDING EVERY HARD PLASTIC, EVERY FACTORY PAINTED PART, EVERY HOSE, EVERY CABLE, EVERY NUT AND BOLT, THROTTLE LINKAGE, THE SOUND INSULATION, EVERY THING THAT CAN BE SPRAYED AND FOR GOOD ORDER'S SAKE, THEN DO THE SAME APPLICATION OF CLEAR COAT VARNISH IN THE ENTIRE ENGINE BAY, INCLUDING THE ORIGINAL ENGINE BAY PAINTWORK, OIL HOSES, ELECTRICAL CABLES, ETC.?

What are the pros and cons, rights and wrongs? Has anyone ever done this before, if so I sure would love to see the results. And, if someone has done this, how did they get the clear coat varnish off?

This is my engine today (?), what would you do? Would you do allow this treatment to your engine, or would you remain "Original spec" with it's natural "as-it-used-to-be" look?

Thanks for your help once again.

All my best,
Marc964.

[Don Plumley]

I would not do that at all. Once it yellows or flakes off it will be unsightly and difficult to remove.

[Tom W]

No, I'd never do it.

[cjoenck]

Do not do it. Bad idea for a couple of reasons.

- Engine and surrounding will head up and cool down, i.e. expand and contract. Any clear varnish will not expand and contract in the same way as the engine parts it is sprayed on. The clear coat will crack and flake off.

- You will change the way heat is conducted away from metal parts - really not a good idea.

In my humble opinion, an engine should look and smell like an engine. A 964 is not a museum piece - yet - and was build to be driven. If they get a little dirty and a little oily, well that's OK. Sure, I like to look at a clean engine but let's not forget what they are supposed to do - move a car very fast from A to B

But that's just me.

[aigel]

What is it that you gain from such a procedure?

George

[Marc964]

Good morning the World!!
Thanks Guys for the answers and questions. Before this thread disappears into oblivion, pls one more detail.. It’s not that I wanted to do it, it was done for me with my permission!

Please excuse my "trick question"

"The truth is"… The OPC technician took the decision upon "himself" to improve my M64.01 by spraying several coats of plastic varnish (clear coat) without asking or even mentioning his perceived visions of restoration! My engine was out of the car because of an earlier mentioned problem (thanks again 3.6 Turbo for your help!) that was being re-done free-of-charge because of a bad installation to the sound insulation a few months ago. Several coats of fast drying, ultra hard, plastic varnish from an aerosol spray can were applied to the entire engine while on a trolley, the engineless engine bay’s interior, including the second new sound insulation, and various bits and pieces such as last min add-ons such as air filter assembly, fan motor assembly, and elec covers etc. were sprayed when the remount was completed. I left in a rage and have not returned since. BTW.. I was told this innocent after work spray on engine product was harmless and used regularly in the service department!

At present there’s a stalemate, they offer to remove the shine aspect with some form of brushed on diluents or cold wash and of course I say, well…. I think you can imagine. Next stop.. The Legal System.. Another ****ed client by a garage!!

My question is very simple.. How can you remove a plastic transparent varnish from a Porsche 911/964 engine that looked like this before and now looks like this? And yes, the over spray as eaten the rear plastic window, impregnated the aft section of the fabric soft-top, and rear fenders which I was able to polish out (thanks Swisswax!)

One more detail, driving is impossible as the plastic burns with engine heat giving off toxic gas and micro particles are breaking off and being sucked into the engine, cough, cough..

How do you get this crap off!!

Thanks Guys and Gals,
Marc..

A few words from my Dog.. http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2449542

PS. HAS ANYTHING LIKE THIS EVER HAPPENED TO ANYONE ELSE, ANYWHERE??

BEFORE..


AFTER X 3..

[BoxxerSix]

Wow What!??!?!?!?!?!?! They did that w/o addressing your beforehand. That guy would have a hurting from me if it was my car.


Pending on what type of varnish they used you may be in for a ride trying to remove that crap. I've worked for a resto shop in the past and that stuff is not to be applied to plastic, or a motor for that matter, on any car that is to be driven!

IF it was my car, the unfortunate thing is that the motor would have to be stripped down to it's core tall block and plug all the ports/holes that are left open from a removed exhaust/intake and then sprayed with a paint remover like Bully Dog bumper stuff to soften the coating, then washed off.

As far as the plastic bit, you can do the same but you're going to want to test the paint remover on inconspicuous spots first before spraying them completely. Parts that are rubber(sensors, coupler, wires, hoses, exposes seals) would have to be masked off.

You can TRY wiping the stuff off with something like a PPG evaporative cleaner, but I doubt it's going to penetrate the coating to effectively remove it. Acetone/paint thinner will surely damage the plastic parts.


What an A** F**K of a shop to do this!


Also, being a mechanic...that coating is my worst nightmare. It damn near glues everything into place and makes removing simple things like electrical connectors and a chore and a half!

[Marc964]

Thanks Adam !

Really, thanks for taking the time to post a response. To go on about why or how come seems all my wife and I are doing. The OPC are not clearly in "black and white" terms, admitting that they have made the error and the Head Offices are more keen on selling new cars and really don’t want to get involved. It’s me and my one 911/964 against them and their million-multi-mega-money-making-machine. The name PORSCHE has lost that something special that for so many years I held in the highest esteem! Anyway……….

For what its worth.. The description is: Fast drying, transparent resins/solvents plastic aerosol spray can, hand held applied and $5.00 pay out. Sounds so simple and yet..

Ingreds:
Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Xylene..
The term xylene refers to a group of three benzene derivatives which are used as a solvent and in the printing, rubber, and leather industries. Xylene is a colorless, sweet-smelling liquid that is very flammable. Like other solvents, xylene is also used as an inhalant drug for its intoxicating properties.

Butanone..
Butanone is produced in large quantities. Nearly half of it is used in paints and other coatings because it will quickly evaporate. It dissolves many substances and is used as a solvent in processes involving gums, resins, cellulose acetate and nitrocellulose coatings and in vinyl films. It is also used in the synthetic rubber industry, It is used in manufacturing plastics, textiles, in the production of paraffin wax, and in household products such as lacquer, varnishes, paint remover, a denaturing agent for denatured alcohol, glues and as a cleaning agent. It is used for synthesis of methyl ethyl ketone peroxide, a catalyst for some polymerization reactions. It is highly flammable.

Ethylbenzene..
Ethylbenzene is an organic chemical compound which is an aromatic hydrocarbon. Its major use is in the petrochemical industry as an intermediate compound for the production of styrene, which in turn is used for making polystyrene, a commonly used plastic material. Although often present in small amounts in crude oil, ethylbenzene is produced in bulk quantities by combining the petrochemicals benzene and ethylene in an acidically-catalyzed chemical reaction. Catalytic dehydrogenation of the ethylbenzene then gives hydrogen gas and styrene, which is vinylbenzene. Ethylbenzene is also an ingredient in some paints.

Acetate..
Acetate can also refer to cellulose acetate, especially fibres or other derived products such as the acetate disc used in audio record production. Cellulose acetate can be found in many household products and varnishes.


Soon three weeks later and so I wait. The OPC continues to offer a remedy that has nothing to do with problem. They continue to "****" me off and refuse to recognise the extent of the damage. Their offer is to change the aspect of brilliance by brushing a universal cleaning diluent and washing away, as they see it, just another after engine service general cleaner that’s been applied as, so often done. Bang! Over and out thanks its been a pleasure sir!

I have the spray can and needless to say have researched this product thoroughly, my conclusions are based on a licence plate that I sprayed and allowed it to dry. The only cleaner to touch it was Acetone and or, a cellulose paint/varnish dilute. On the painted surface of the same licence plate the same spray crinkled it. From what I have found out, this is actually a transparent metal sealer protecting it from rust and or extreme weather heats and colds. It’s a "****ing" cast iron preserver!! And some "**** ing" OPC Technician took it upon himself, without anyone (including me!) being informed and sprayed, and sprayed, and sprayed!! If you could see the runs, the reactions in the surfaces you’d vomit! Why did this man think he was doing me a favour, why?..... Because he thought he could contribute to a Porsche 911/964 that I had spent five years restoring..

THE WRONG PRODUCT IN THE WRONG HANDS!! As simple as that..

Adam, thanks again.. My dog needs to take a leak, good excuse to stop. The more I write the more I, etc………………………………………………………………………………………

Drive cool,
Marc..

PS.. What do you think?..

Another ORIGINAL SPEC photo taken days before my OPC appointment..

[cjoenck]

If it was my car I would get legal advice right now to look at options.

Apart from that, it sound like the only real remedy is solvents for the metal parts and replacing any plastic part that was sprayed with the stuff. Not a pretty picture - no pun intended - whichever way you look at it.

You have my deepest sympathy! This should not happen, not ever!

Did you get Porsche customer service in Germany involved yet?

[aigel]

The engine will have to be disassembled to the long block. Cleaned with solvent and then re-assembled, using new plastic and rubber parts where required. This will be very expensive. Legal help will likely be necessary!

George

[Marc964]

Good morning!
Thanks for writing guys.. The long and the short of it is that my 911/964 will be repaired by the OPC that mistakenly covered my engine with transparent clear varnish instead of plastic renovator, hum.. Isn’t that BIG of them!! Unfortunately the Service Centre that committed the error under the guarantee is responsible for the repairs, I wonder if money has anything to do with it? And NO!! Our registered mail to the Head Offices in France and Germany were not acknowledged in any way, shape or form. The signed receipt of registered mail was ONLY piece of paper sent to us. NOT one letter, not one email, not one phone call, absolutely nothing!! Our four page letter with photographs, all correspondence and pleas for assistance or alternatives to correct the error of an OPC to this day has not warranted an official Head Office answer!! Hard to believe but it’s true..

Makes me wonder why a new Museum is being built when the future sales of a automobile manufacturer are contingent to those very same cars that are still being driven on today’s roads with the original concepts of design and passion that are no-longer employed by those that matter.. Perhaps that says it all..

I am very disgusted! This should not be happening! An Official Porsche Centre has ruined my original 911/964 and all those concerned there have turned it around as if it's my fault!! All I asked for in mid November, 2007 was a new clutch and new sound insulation, **** do I regret that 58 Euros re-fit!!

My 911/964 is now in the hands of an, Expert en Automiles Diplome D’Etat.. This lawyer/auto expert plus their lawyer/auto expert plus their insurance company will put their heads together to figure out what to do next, great!! Mean while back at the ranch.. My 911/964 is covered-up..

Funny, I wrote to another member this morning depicting the fun part of 911/964 addiction forgetting completely that because of the earlier problems committed by the same OPC that led to my last service repair "spray over" of almost a month ago had in fact deprived me of that fun part of 911/964 addiction for a soon to be.. More than a third of a year..

Brain washing.. Maybe that’s why the new Museum is being built. Create an image, inflate the ego and to the music of a by-gone-era..
Keep those Dogs a’rolling, Raw Hide!! (Perhaps the words are wrong)..

Thanks for answering guys, my addiction is now a Porsche 911/964 Forum..

Marc.

A few words from my Dog.. http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2449542

[ebenke]

Unfreaking believable.

Best wishes getting it all sorted.