How do you correctly navigate a 90* turn?

[sugarwood]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

I suggest you take the turn 5 quarts low on oil.

Yea, but in second gear or third?

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

Yea, but in second gear or third?

Definitely 2nd, not Granny shifting double clutch rev matching like you know you should.

[sugarwood]

That sounds illegal and should only be done on the track. Anything past 2000 rpm is irresponsibly dangerous.

[3rd_gear_Ted]

Suggested reading:
The turn type your are speaking of is a type 1 turn in the PCA lexicon for future reference, you either are leaving a straight or heading on to one . it can be found in the performance driving handbook that many regions have developed.

[vansicklenmi]

Is it 90 degree right turn or 90 degree left turn?

[Driven97]

I don't know why nobody has suggested it yet, obviously the correct technique is a reverse entry drift.

[cajun]

^^^This has my vote...

[wayner]

I wish more modern PCA instructors had experience in early cars.

On the street I leave a margin for error, move my brake zone further away for the corner, get it done early, get back on positive throttle just enough to settle the car ( no understeer, and some weight transfer to the rear with minor throttle, and be amazed how well a not quite neutral air cooled 911 sticks like it's on rails as you turn in)

Get it right and this is a real treat. Get it wrong and there is no drama, but your butt and hands can sense that you could have done it just a bit better.

Then of course this can be followed by lots of throttle after turn in as you unwind because the rear of these car dig in the more you transfer the weight.

Forget the aggressiveness of the track, play with perfecting your balance. It's a neat sensation to turn in at the right speed and amount of throttle in these air cooled cars.

(On the track you modify this since the track is different but there is lots to be said about early throttle in these cars)

[sugarwood]

Right turn.

wayner is suggesting being in 2nd gear before the turn, and having some throttle as the turn starts.
That would mean some real serious braking before the turn to get into 2nd gear before it.

[wayner]

An long wheel base air cooled 911 is NOT a momentum machine like a Cayman, 944or 914. It's a unique animal.

Exploit its hard braking skills and its ability to start accelerating sooner and come off corners harder

[sugarwood]

Why is it a different animal?

[wayner]

It's all about the engine location. Think of the rear axle as a teeter totter

To exaggerate it, imagine that when you are on the gas it wants to do a wheelie and when your off the gas the engine wants to go up and over, levering the back wheels off the ground.

Extreme exaggeration I know, but it's useful,in figuring out why there is little front or rear end grip at certain times. To balance it you absolutely have to be on the throttle to some degree

It's seems over the last few years in the Porsche world we've lost the common phrase "accelerate towards the apex"

Always: breaking done early, unless you are an expert at backing it in like the guys that race the short wheel base cars or have a ton of experience walking the tightrope of grip.

P.S.
At a DE event, I'd be very careful getting a newer PCA instructor who has never driven an air cooled car and following their advice to a T. They can get you in trouble if they don't realize what they are asking you to do sometimes.

[Driven97]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

Why is it a different animal?

Joking aside, all cars have strengths and weaknesses. Miatas are a gold standard for handling because they fit the book models of driving. Low power, 50/50 weight distribution, no bad habits, no specific strengths. Be smooth, brake straight, late apex, roll into gas. Drive a Miata by the book and you'll be fast.

Not every car is like that. A Subaru STi or or Mitsubishi EVO, for example, are outlier cars. They overload their front tires in braking and early phases of a corner like a fwd car. However, they dig, plant, and squirt very well. They respond very well to getting the braking and turning done early compared to other cars, and with the ability to put power down so well you can cheat and cut distance while you're at it. The result is known as more of a "diamond line," or closer to straight lining from apex to apex. Real point and squirt stuff.

FWD cars tend to be very stable and forgiving, but also have a tough time rotating under certain circumstances. When I drive fwd in competition, I use some pretty wacky heavy trail braking and hard steering inputs intended to upset the car to force it to do things I want that aren't in books.

Rear engine cars differ a bit on setup, but for the most part the weight in the rear makes them inherently unstable. But that also keeps weight off the fronts. So they brake very well and plant the rears very well in a straight line. But they also don't like transition - accelerating all that weight in the rear laterally takes time. Plus under power the already light fronts get even lighter, which reduces their authority to request turning even more. So in my experience, 911s like late, hard, but straight line braking, fairly traditional late apex line aka get the turning done early, and get on that gas asap to use the traction advantage at corner exit. My car hates hard transitions and gets downright evil if too much trail braking is used or too much speed is carried into the corner entry phase.

[wayner]

Sugarwood, as with Matt's excellent post above,
let Patrick long show you at 13:32

( or the ultimate double 90, the corkscrew just at in the video, or how he picks up,the throttle early at 14:07 & 14:14. And way back at 1:08)

https://youtu.be/PTaJ62xW8Jk

[sugarwood]

I do see the maintenance throttle first, and then the full throttle.
However, remember that I'm talking about a hard 90 degree turn, not a track thing.

[wayner]

In that case, I slow right down, well in advance...then I tiptoe through it...then I gently accelerate,out. I don't want to end up in the other lane and endanger anyone.

[winders]

This person is driving on the street. Don't help him be an idiot.....

[sugarwood]

Originally Posted by winders

This person is driving on the street. Don't help be an idiot.....

See post 13.

[winders]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

See post 13.

See post #36.

[Driven97]

Ok, I'm back to reverse entry drift then.