89 911 LS1 Conversion

[911JeffS]

Yann-
Without question the torque of our V8's requires larger bars front & rear. As recommended, I'm going to use same components 30 tb rear 22-23 tb front. Would you mind expanding on the adjustable spring plates ? What company(ER) ? happy w/the products ? I like the setup, as I see it, the suspension would have full rear travel, only restricted by the 30mm tb.

How does it feel compared with the original setup? Is it your understanding also that the adjustable SP w/poly-bronze bushings gives the big 30mm a less harsh feel ? Compared to the original SP w/rubber bushings that twists/binds, as opposed to the free moving new setup. I have never driven my car, so I have nothing to compare it to. Can't wait to see some video.

[Yan2947]

Kyle, not sure about my HP yet but there is no turbo lag. I love the ride. The car handles like a porsche. I'm not sure what other 89 911s weigh but I'm sure they are close if they have not been stripped. Jeff, my setup is from Elephant Racing. My mechanic ordered them. The product is great so far. The feel is not so different. Certainly stiffer but comfortable. The squat is gone and that was my main concern. Didn't get a chance to do any videos but I will try one of these days...

[Yan2947]

Bad news and good news. Well, a Crankshaft bearing went on my LS1. Not good. I have seen everyone who purchased a used LS1/x have problems and I guess I'm not exempt. I was told about 2K to rebuild it. I paid $2500 originally for my LS1 and the new GM long block was only $3100 delivered without a core charge from crateenginedepot They were great and super fast! I am taking off the components I need for the new long block from my old motor like the intake, etc... I did spend some time thinking if I should go to an LS3 or or LS7 but really, why? I'm not racing the car and it is way too powerful as is to warrant the extra bucks on the extra horse power. If this was my first build I would seriously recommend anyone to just purchase a crate LSx of your choosing from GM Performance or a company like SLP Performance where you can get an LS3 long block with over 500 hp for just over $7000. You never know what you are going to get with a used engine!

If anyone wants to rebuild an engine I will let my used/blown LS1 long block go for $500. It has a fairly new oil pan (my new crate came with an oil pan). I have a crate to ship it if you pay the shipping or pick it up in 12486.

[Scott R]

Are you looking into the root cause of the failure? I wouldn't be dropping more engines in unless I knew exactly how the last one failed.

[Yan2947]

Scott,
We knew there was some play in the crank. It was slightly out of spec. My car would stall sometimes when the clutch was depressed making us think that the crank sensor was not always engaged. Not sure but eventually it got bad quick. The vehicle the motor came from was salvaged with 65K miles but the insurance agent told me that it was a front side impact and not a head-on. He did not think that could have caused the destruction of the motor. My oil pan once hit the ground, cracking the pan as indicated in earlier posts. Other then those two incidents there appears to be nothing else. I have since put on a skid plate and recently got my tornsion bars upgraded to 30mm in the rear and 22mm in the front. No more squat. Hopefully I will never have an issue again. The new motor comes with a pretty good warranty. Are you thinking there could be something else?

[Yan2947]

Well, the new ls1 has the ls6 valley cover and the batwing oil pan. I have the old ls1 style intake so I see there will be some changes coming. Is a new LS6 intake mandatory or does it just make a whole lot of sense.? Anyone chime in...

[Yan2947]

New engine is in. John is finishing off some final new changes to the cooling system. I switched out the RH water pump adapter for toyjets water pump adapter. It gives a lot more room between the adapter and the back of the car and it looks like you could take it off without removing the engine. The only issue with the water pump adapter is that it would like to have the electric water pump on the driver side of the motor. Anyone starting from scratch it would be easier to do. We are just re-routing the hose to bring it to the opposite side of the motor. The new LS1 long block looks like it is for the corvette with the batwing oil pan. It has a lower profile then the Camaro oil pan. Hopefully my skid plate will fit. The valley cover is the newer style and should yield a bit more horsepower.

[not_hans_stuck]

Originally Posted by racer_X

This is a very interesting build, I love the details, but not sure if I buy into the idea yet. I am just wondering how well would handle..... even if the LS engine is technically lighter (and not by much if I understand correctly) isn't the center of gravity much higher with the V8? And isn't the car still heavier overall with the additional weight of the cooling system and coolant? I would be nervous entering a corner with the weight that high (though I like the LS's accessories position, nice and low compared to the flat six).

Someone enlighten me: it seems like this conversion is for those who appreciate a straight and flat track, but has anyone run this set up on a road course?

This is one of those apples to apples things.

I think an LS1 has a higher center of gravity than a flat 6. I think a turbocharged flat 6 with the intercooler and all that other stuff mounted way up high, has a higher center of gravity than an LS1. Since the LS1 is in the same power class as a turbo, the center of gravity advantage goes to the LS1.

Incidentally, the same goes for weight also. I think the LS1 and normally aspirated flat 6 are close in weight - Clemons reports a 25 lb difference which is certainly within the error range of a big rig scale. However, once you've added a gigantic intercooler, turbocharger and all the plumbing of a turbo motor, the LS1 provides a clear advantage.

Let's remember we're talking about 400hp cars, not 200hp cars.

And then, of course, there's the fact that a 400hp Porsche motor is on the ragged edge of tune and not really all that tractable, while a 400hp LS motor is basically what I have in my Suburban -more or less.

I drove Clemons car and while it's surprisingly fast, the most amazing thing was how civil it was if you didn't provoke it. Amazing.

Hal

[Yan2947]

Hal,

wow, you got to drive his car? Was it the supercharged one or the stock ls1 car?

[not_hans_stuck]

Originally Posted by Yan2947

Hal,

wow, you got to drive his car? Was it the supercharged one or the stock ls1 car?

The stock one. The silver targa. The supercharged car had the motor out.

He's a really great guy. He offered, I didn't even ask.

I already had the RH kit on order though - and I prefer the radiator in the nose. The wing radiator is a very innovative idea, but I had already created the look I wanted and couldn't go back. Also, I'm obviously not afraid to take a sawzall to my car.

Using Toy Story as a reference, I was more Sid than Andy.

H

[Kyle Saenz]

it's funny how if your doing the work your self you could almost have the RH kit, and a BRAND NEW lsx engine for the cost of a quality rebuild on the flat six.... with no real disadvantages.... hmm

[not_hans_stuck]

The one potential disadvantage ,is the effect on resale. It may or may not have a direct affect on price, but it will limit the cars appeal thereby reducing the potential pool of buyers. It becomes more of a hotrod and less of a collectible classic.

I have no idea what that does to price. I suspect a well executed conversion would get a good price, but it might be harder to sell.

Of course, if you dont care about that, then it isnt a factor.

You do lose the flat six sound and thats sad, but I can live with that.

[lin7310948]

i have never even considered the resale value of the car after the conversion. i do not miss the flat six sound either! i do love the 911-930 body style and design but wanted a somewhat cheaper and simplier high horsepower engine. so my two conversions were to my liking. and, the Mast Motorsports LS 427 SS drive by wire engine was not cheap but it has forged internals and develops a bit over 700 CHP... as a bit of advice..i would build a bulkhead between the radiator shroud and the gas tank that seals off the heat from the radiator enclosure that might escape into into the front compartment. the porsche dash is not very well sealed.

[not_hans_stuck]

That's good advice about the firewall. I've been looking at that. The shrouding for the radiator is pretty loose fitting. I need to see how the renegade gas tank fits though. It might form the firewall.

I also know that the front of a 911 is pretty wobbly and I'd like to do something to shore that up a bit. I was thinking a full width firewall made of steel and welded into the front trunk would form a pretty good stiffener. It would be a complete redesign of the front radiator area though.

I don't know if I'll miss the 911 noise or not. We'll see.

As far as resale, it's just another data point. It ranks low on my importance level, but I still have a kid to get through college and the car is the emergency fund.

Well, the emergency emergency fund....

H

[Yan2947]

Originally Posted by slow&rusty

Weight of my car shown on the corner of the building (2940lbs).

My car in this pic is on 3/4 tank of gas and has B&B headers and muffler, everything else was factory right down to the Fuchs and A\C



Hope that helps.

Just an FYI... Checking weights of other stock cars and found this nice 930 weighing in at 2940 as shown on a scale. I've added my weight at our local weigh station below which shows the exact same weight, mine having an LS1.



Of course, mine is a 1989 911 with a G50/01 and I am not sure what year his 930 is and what tranny it has. I have the same rear lid and wing with slight mod and he has a inter cooler where I have a radiator. My fenders, tires and breaks weigh a little less also. Hopefully, he won't mind me borrowing his post but it does show an apples to apples comparison, almost.

[heliolps2]

I think you can use a 993 twin turbo deck lid and tail , i believe that you can get all stuff under that tail, just a thought

[Yan2947]

I like the 930 lid and the way this turned out. I know its a mod to a stock wing but it works. I really had to vent the back. Moving the radiator a little more towards the rear keeps the fans above the back of the motor close to the lid latch and allows most of the hot air from the radiator to pass out the back. The new long block is almost complete. Hopefully it will be running again by next week....

[Yan2947]

Just put up a new video link on youtube after driving the car today:

89 Porsche 911 LS1 - YouTube

Nothing too special but you get to see a bit of the wonderful RH Kit and the toyjet water pump adapter along with the toyjet inspired radiators from Ron Davis.

[toyjet2000]

I am beta testing my new LS1 Water Pump adapter.

Its inlets and outlets are now inter-changeable to better adapt to any
configuration.

See more Pics at: Toy-Jet.com

Page 10

[toyjet2000]

Yan, I tested my latest wing design. I drove my car 50 miles. I averaged 75 mph. My temp. went to 195 degrees then the fan came on and my temp settled at 180 degrees. At idle I was about 160. It was 80 degrees outside when this test was done. See pictures of my new design at my web site at: Toy-Jet.com Reference page 2, titled New Design 2012. Thanks.