RUF CTR Conversion, Value discussion

[Axel84]

You are probably right, debating facts over and over is silly. Those in the know, will know. others will just see an overpriced porsche with ruf bits on it. Thanks for your input Nick.

[kevin930t]

I know a great painter.....

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

[CountD]

Axel,

Please excuse me as I did not mean to bag on your car. There is nothing worse than coming to a forum with a question and have some guy bag on your car. I have my reasons as stated. This is a great forum with great people and it's one of the rare places on the internet that many people know what they are talking about and take the time to talk about it.

All I was saying is:

A RUF CTR = A RUF CTR
A Porsche converted into a RUF CTR = A Porsche converted into a RUF CTR

That's it. I don't know if anyone really cares as at the end of the day, as it's essentially the same as a CTR. But I guess a Mustang Fastback with Shelby mods is essentially a Shelby GT350. But a Shelby GT350 is worth a heck of a lot more than a Mustang with all the correct Shelby mods. And one of those new Shebly Cobras built by Shelby with old VINS are essentially a Cobra, but the market sees it quite differently.

I suspect all the money would go to a RUF CTR. But with so few made, and so few conversions ever done (because they were so over-the-top expensive) the market is very small, and someone wanting a CTR without all the provenance and hub-bub it would not matter which it was. If a real CTR (what's real) is worth $800K (I have no idea), is a CTR conversion worth $300K? Who knows. I don't. Either way, both cars are special and if you wait long enough you'll get a buyer. But in this time of woe and want in all things 911 things get very exciting and very clouded at once.

[pmax]

^^^Can we settle this once and for all ?


Does Alois call this a RUF CTR ? If he does, his word should be good enough.

[JacobS911]

Can you still take at 3.2 to RUF for the ctr conversion? If so what's that cost? If not does RUF provide a certificate of authentication for this conversion?

As for price.. why not stick it on ebay with a high reserve and buy it now and see what it bids to? Probably your best bet on establishing a realistic value on the car. Who knows maybe you'll be able to strike a deal with a serious bidder even if it doesn't hit the reserve.

It's a beautiful car that's for sure and I dig the color. GLWS!

[Axel84]

No worries guys, like I said when i started the thread - I appreciate you pelicaners view, even if they are contrary to mine.

Arguing back and forth whether its a real CTR - well - its one of the official 25 conversions confirmed by RUF, who also sent me the conversion papers for the car back in 1991. If thats not real enough for some, then I suspect only a RUF VIN`ed CTR will do. And thats fine, I suspect some collectors do think that!

As for having a new one built today - They could probably do it, the price of the conversion would likely be similar to a brand new Singer - and it still wouldnt be one of the 50 odd original cars - but i bet it would drive like one!

It wont go on Ebay, partly because I dont have to sell it, but rather because I would like it to find a nice enthusiastic buyer in private. I`d be open to a reasonable offer.

[Axel84]

Originally Posted by CountD

Axel,

Please excuse me as I did not mean to bag on your car. There is nothing worse than coming to a forum with a question and have some guy bag on your car. I have my reasons as stated. This is a great forum with great people and it's one of the rare places on the internet that many people know what they are talking about and take the time to talk about it.

All I was saying is:

A RUF CTR = A RUF CTR
A Porsche converted into a RUF CTR = A Porsche converted into a RUF CTR

That's it. I don't know if anyone really cares as at the end of the day, as it's essentially the same as a CTR. But I guess a Mustang Fastback with Shelby mods is essentially a Shelby GT350. But a Shelby GT350 is worth a heck of a lot more than a Mustang with all the correct Shelby mods. And one of those new Shebly Cobras built by Shelby with old VINS are essentially a Cobra, but the market sees it quite differently.

I suspect all the money would go to a RUF CTR. But with so few made, and so few conversions ever done (because they were so over-the-top expensive) the market is very small, and someone wanting a CTR without all the provenance and hub-bub it would not matter which it was. If a real CTR (what's real) is worth $800K (I have no idea), is a CTR conversion worth $300K? Who knows. I don't. Either way, both cars are special and if you wait long enough you'll get a buyer. But in this time of woe and want in all things 911 things get very exciting and very clouded at once.

No worries CountD, No offense taken Appreciate your input!

[Axel84]

1988 Porsche 911 Turbo 'Ruf CTR' | Monaco 2016 | RM Sotheby's

This one went up on auction earlier this year. Lovely car, but its a 930 turbo converted to a BTR then given CTR running gear, not a 3.2 based CTR with a 3.2 based engine as per original. I think advertising it as a CTR with alot of CTR history is a bit disingenious as this car is probably a good 700 pounds heavier than the proper CTRs.

Lovely car and I`d love to own it, but it isnt a proper CTR!

[Highway-Star]

Someone will pay full price soon, I wouldn't budge a cent, would triple price so to make sure no one would buy it.

[racerboyrt]

This Canadian CTR was avail in 2014 for $260 CAD which is around $190k USD

Canadian Redbird: 1989 Ruf CTR #12 | Bring a Trailer

Seems like a similar car, but half the miles of yours. I hear mileage really hurts the value on these. Mileage, not Yellowbird yellow, super far away from The US, just killin the value. Or maybe I'm using as a negotiating tactic....

[Axel84]

You are taking me to the cleaners Ryan!

[drauz]

"Does Alois call this a RUF CTR ? If he does, his word should be good enough."

Well put.
I think some may not clearly understand the way Alois was dealing w/ the factory and the happy surprise of facing greater demand than he'd forecast when he placed his order w/ the factory. He ordered a bunch of bodies-in-white, and when the market exhausted his supply (recall that the factory was on kinda thin $$$ ice at the time, & getting ready to change the chassis & production process too) he did the next best thing possible... got new 911s, took them down to "body-in-white" status, then built them up again - like he did with the factory-batch cars, with the extra step of stripping them down. If Axel's car is one of these, done by Ruf back in the day, and it is so recognized by Ruf, has contemporaneous docs, chain-of-ownership records... all the provenance one could ask for... then, the only differential would be that the market (a pretty thin one at that) might prefer the sequence built from the BIW chassis Ruf ordered from Porsche vs ones he sourced subsequently.

If I were you Alex, and could be patient, I would price it where I'd like to sell it and just wait till an actual buyer showed up who wanted one so badly that he wasn't bothered by the slight distinction among the early run of CTRs. And if you indeed have Alois backing (both historical records and a current validation of your specific car as one of his "taking down to BIW & build as CTR"), then you are on pretty solid ground. All you need is the support of Ruf and the right prospect. or two.

[Axel84]

Thanks for great thought out reply Drauz - Yes of cource I have a RUF supplied document outlining and confirming the entire conversion. RUF are confirming its one of the original CTR conversions, around 25 were done in addition to the 29 original.

A friend of mine told me yesterday he contacted RUF in 2007 to have one built.


"tried to have one made in 2007 but they said they didnt have the parts anymore."

[matt930s]

That is a sweet car....GLWS.

MattR

[Macroni]

IMO Value should be based upon actual RUF build documentation.... this and only this should determine if it is a RUF CTR.

Price...... no idea market is up and down seemingly dependent upon the specific car.

[Axel84]

[Axel84]

Hopefully that illuminates the authenticity of the car!

Best,
axel

[Niche]

RUF Conversions done by RUF are still RUF cars and considered as such by the factory. That said, the RUF Vin cars will always be most desirable with conversions done at Pfaffenhausen coming in second place.

[Axel84]

Absolutely, and I fully agree Niche.

[specialtyoneinc]

I think your asking price is fair but this car really needs to be marketed and placed at the right auction to get all the money. RM is probably the place.