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Destroying values by new pollution-laws ?

In europe most countries are already going to forbid gas or diesel cars. some in 2030 (Norway) some in 2040 (England). Only electrical cars will be allowed. What means that for classic car -values ? When i buy a classic porsche today its an investment in future as i want to keep and drive her for decades. But what when i am no longer allowed driving her ? Spending much money for a car that will be a garage-queen only in near future ?
So sell now as prices are still high ?
Old 07-31-2017, 02:13 AM
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That is a good and very relevant question.

Here in the EU most politicians are very populist and most decisions like that are decided by the European Parliament (the worst bureaucracy in world history) - they love anything that has a enviromental friendly glow to it - no matter the cost or consequence. But I dont doubt that they are out to kill the petrol cars, no matter their age.

Think of this. Compared to a Tesla which is a huge pile of electronics and batteries shipped in from all over the world, how much do you think an old Porsche impacts the enviroment on an average over its lifespan - not much!

The Tesla however needs constant replacement parts lke a 500kg battery pack, electronics and so on and so on. How is that going to impact the environment? But hey, it runs on electricity - ZERO pollution. Yeah right!

Plus a 10 year old Tesla will be like a 10 year old 2000 kg cellular phone - not much to reuse for spares there. I wonder where the "environmentalist" are going to put all the millions of kgs of old batteries? Maybe fly them to Mars in a solarpowered spaceship?

The worst part of it is that most people buy this bull**** and think that they are saving the world buy buying a Tesla and instsalling a solar panel on their roof......sigh!
Old 07-31-2017, 03:41 AM
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The ban will be for new vehicle sales. The major threats to classic cars are not petrol bans imo. They are self driving cars and shrinking infrastructure as more and more cars are electric.

There's a scenario where driver driven cars are confined to private roads only, everywhere, which I think is not the most likely, but there's one which I think is highly probable in a relatively short timeframe (say, 20 years), where petrol stations are 50 miles apart and gas costs $20 a gallon (maybe 100 in some euro countries).

Interestingly, the market doesn't seem to price any of that at all.
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Old 07-31-2017, 04:02 AM
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The truth is there is nothing we can do about it. Watch the movie "minority report " by Steven Spielberg. The film is set 50 years in the future. He hired a think tank to come up with how our future will look. The cars are electric. Even if we hate the idea of self driving cars, huge trauma hospitals will close, Thousands of nurses and doctors will be not needed and most people will no longer even own cars. Thousands of lives will be saved. People will either lease or just order a driver less car to your door to take the family 100 miles to visit grandma. The car industry will suffer. Another horrible thing is that cars will be regulated by the feds and the states. They will have complete control of all cars and trucks. Classic cars will be in the city auto museum. Enjoy your classic car now.
Old 07-31-2017, 08:15 AM
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The idea of an all electric transportation system depends on a revolutionary breakthrough in portability. Even the newest batteries won't cut it.
When a Tesla costs 25k, can go 400 miles per charge, and recharge from zero in 5 minutes at any street corner, then and only then will petrol be out.
They are closer, but that's still a ways to go.
Self driving cars are the real threat to the joy of motoring, and will be sold under the guise of lives saved, regardless of cost (both monetary and freedom)
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Old 07-31-2017, 08:29 AM
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The Tesla 3 will change everything. After it comes out in a few years there will be models that go much farther and also, much faster. It is all about to change. But oil will still be used for the next 50 years easy. At any given time there are 5000 airplanes in the air. They use fuel refined from oil. So do Amtrak and all sea shipping and power plants in America. Cars will be the main thing that goes electric.
Old 07-31-2017, 09:49 PM
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Hopefully, then we can buy back all our air-cooled 911's that went to Europe for cheap.
Old 08-01-2017, 03:48 AM
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Another dandy law created by "man made gullible warming"
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Old 08-02-2017, 03:30 PM
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In the future cars will be like cel-phones. Intentionally useless and replaced after 2 years.
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Old 08-02-2017, 05:34 PM
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Read about cobalt needed for EVs:

https://techcrunch.com/2017/01/01/no-cobalt-no-tesla/

This leaves out the need for more mining of copper which is also controversial, see Pebble Bay mine. Was protested by environmentalists even though the demand for the copper, etc. was from windmills and EVs! I guess the good news is that when you mine more copper you can get more cobalt...
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Old 08-07-2017, 01:36 PM
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I think level 5 self driving cars are nothing but vaporware.
The best we see is cruise control style highway guidance, which is a non-issue.
The idea of a car without a steering wheel is not going to become mainstream.
I will now adjust my tin foil hat.
Old 08-07-2017, 03:47 PM
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Just read where Australia has effectively banned importation of all antique cars by making importer certify they are 100pct free of asbestos and other dangerous compounds...
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Old 08-07-2017, 04:53 PM
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As stated it is the sale of new IC cars in those countries. Gasoline and diesel powered cars won't be banned outright, at least not for a very long time. In the US it will be many years before even the very oldest IC cars are off the road and they've figured out how to take a battery powered car from coast to coast (with the needed recharging) in a comparable time as current autos.

What may change, however, is the public's perception of gasoline and diesel powered cars. Future generations of drivers (or passengers in the case of autonomous vehicles) may see them as "dirty" and a scourge to the environment and even people's health. Crazy as it may seem when battery powered cars have "dirty" origins themselves. I see that happening in Europe before the US.
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Old 08-07-2017, 08:35 PM
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Yeah but loss of infrastructure is a threat before outright ban. When too few petrol cars are left, gas might be $20 a gallon and gas stations 50 miles apart.
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Old 08-08-2017, 03:40 AM
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You can still drive your classic! By the time the world has gone electric, a retrofit with an electric engine and battery array will fit nicely into your engine compartment. Your 1973T with its classic interior and body will still be a joy to drive, but faster and without the fumes, right? But we all know its that air cooled flat six that makes it a Porsche. So we make a sacrifice and are required to retrofit to electric. Electric power? 0 to 60 in under four seconds..YES! No worries...........and while your at it, do not forget the hover option as well!
Old 08-08-2017, 08:06 AM
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I'd rather ride in a donkey cart than in an electric ex-aircooled.
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Old 08-08-2017, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunroof View Post
You can still drive your classic! By the time the world has gone electric, a retrofit with an electric engine and battery array will fit nicely into your engine compartment. Your 1973T with its classic interior and body will still be a joy to drive, but faster and without the fumes, right? But we all know its that air cooled flat six that makes it a Porsche. So we make a sacrifice and are required to retrofit to electric. Electric power? 0 to 60 in under four seconds..YES! No worries...........and while your at it, do not forget the hover option as well!
The future is survivable.

Is This What the Future Holds for Classic Porsches? | FLATSIXES
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Old 08-08-2017, 02:59 PM
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The problem with electric, coming from the gearbox guy, is that you no longer need to shift. We did an electric conversion project on a 993 cab about a decade ago. Car only ever used 2 gears. One around town and one on the highway. Boring...
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Old 08-08-2017, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Brooklyn View Post
I'd rather ride in a donkey cart than in an electric ex-aircooled.
Why diss 912s and 356s like that, SickRick?! That's just wrong!

Last edited by Rawknees'Turbo; 08-08-2017 at 05:18 PM..
Old 08-08-2017, 05:15 PM
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boring electric

There is a guy just below West Palm Beach airport with 20 early air cooled cars with electric.They only use 2nd & 3rd gears.Hey Rawknees electric powaa.My wifes son lives about 10 miles away.He has the back half of a FURRARI for a seat so I knew that would get your undivided attention.Fred
Old 08-08-2017, 05:34 PM
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