Maxing out wheel/tire combo on Carrera flared car

[skinnerd]

Just some pics of my 73RS replica (based on a 73E) that used for autocrossing/track events. In the Pacific NW, the hot setup are the Fikses 8.5x17 up front (w/ 245 Hoosiers) and 10x17 out back (w/ 275 Hoosiers). This is a tight fit... fenders had to be rolled, moved about, suspension bolts filed down, oil lines adjusted... in order to get the tire/wheel combination to not rub. Likely not a practical setup for the street, but for autocrossing... nothing beats footprint size. They are a much taller tire than a 245 which hurts acceleration, but the cornering forces more than make up for any losses here. Thought some people on this board would be interested.

[pbs911]

Now that is one great looking P-car. I am green with envy with the color.

[curtisaa]

See you in Cambria....???

[skinnerd]

I'd really like to make Cambria one year... family seems to take priority over this kind of fun for the time being. I try to make some of the NW Rgruppe events.

[MMARSH]

Very nice lookin car. I have a deal where I'm able to get any set of Fikses I want for some 15 inch wheels that I'm trading. I'm currently running the 17 inch three piece Fuchs and love the look of them, I was alittle hesitant about the look of the fikses, but they look really nice on you car. Give us some details about the car.

[skinnerd]

Michael, the car was converted from a bahia red 73E into a viper green Carrera RS lightweight replica for PCA club racing about 8 years ago. Had it all done: 2.7MFI (208hp at rear wheel) engine, factory LSD, lightweight interior (carpets, door panels, seats, etc), fiberglass front/rear bumpers & ducktail, upgraded suspension w/ Charlie bars, strut bar, fuel cell, stock S brakes and bolt-in cage. Car weighed in full of fuel at about 2180 lbs and could do the 1/4 mile in 13.6 at almost 100mph. Pretty fun stuff. Car did fairly well in club racing, but those 3.6 RS Americas were tough!

Last couple of years car is going through changes to become competitive in SCCA ASP autocrossing. Now has 3.2 Motronic (chipped, SSI's, throttle body, etc), 23mm front & 32mm rear torsion bars, RSR valved rear shocks, sport Bilsteins upfront, Quaiffe, monster Fikses, and reinstallation of some of the steel bumpers. Though down on hp to a Randy Wells type car, this car is still really quick and very responsive on the autocross course. The 3.2 sounds almost as good as the 2.7MFI does on full boost. The 2.7MFI is being installed in my 75 US Carrera (used to have the 3.2). I'll post some pictures of that engine... it's a beauty.

[MMARSH]

Sounds like it was done right. Have you dynoed your 3.2. Curious what kind of power thats making.

[Jack Olsen]

Wow -- 245's under stock front fenders?

I'm hoping for 235F/275R with custom-made Fuchs-centered wheels.

What did you have to do up front?

[masraum]

Wow, Awesome looking car!!

[MMARSH]

Jack

245's are no problem up front. just roll your fenders and get the correct offset and you wont have any problems. I"ve been running the 245/275 combo and have no rubbing at all.

[Randy W]

Doug's car is great and he is a skilled driver and tough competitor. Anyone considering this wheel/tire combo (same as on my car) should know that when your car lowered for maximum performance, all the heavy duty suspension (stiff shocks, torsion bars, sway bars) must be installed. Even with all these in place, you will likely still get some rubbing on the inside fenders and body under maximum compression and lock to lock steering. As Doug and Michael have already said - it is worth it on a track/autocross 911 for all that grip.

[skinnerd]

Michael: Haven't dynoed the 3.2, but seat of the pants say it should be pretty similar to the 2.7 (my lap times at PIR-Portland Int Raceway back this). Somewhere in the 240-245hp at the flywheel. More torque but less top end compared to the 2.7.

Jack: Some people have needed to remove the upper dust cover on their shocks to get this tire/wheel combo to fit. I didn't (mine are sport Bilsteins). I did roll the fender. In addition, my tire would hit the inside corner of the front bumper where it bolts to the lower leading edge of the wheel opening when you turn the steering wheel hard in either direction (hopefully you can imagine what I'm talking about here). I used a die grinder to clearance (on an angle) part of the inner edge of the bumper, and after that still needed to pull the bumper out a hair. I could send pictures that might describe this a little better if this is confusing. Finally I had to modify (beat with a big hammer) part of the upper shock mount sheet metal. Where the shock bolts through the upper body, there is a section of sheet metal that encircles where the shock bolts into that sticks down and presents the inside of tire with a sharp edge to hit against. I basically beat this flat. Take your wheel off and look where the upper shock mounts and you'll see the problem. This may all sound like pretty major surgery, but the car is not concours and was built to race.

The rear presented similar issues. The fender lips had to be rolled. The oil lines (I have factory going to a front cooler) had to be moved a little. The biggest problem was that the inside of the wheel was up against the alignment adjustment bolts on the spring plate (even with a thin spacer). One was completely removed (only needed for adjusting, not needed to keep everything in alignment), and another was ground down (probably half it's size) to gain the clearance.

And yes, the car is full stiff. Largest torsion bars that would fit. 23mm front and 32mm rear.

If you're determined and patient, they'll fit. You know the story, every one of these early 911's is a little different as they were hand built by the factory. Some have more room, some have less. Let me know if you have any other questions.

[Jack Olsen]

Thanks for the advice, guys.

In addition, my tire would hit the inside corner of the front bumper where it bolts to the lower leading edge of the wheel opening.

I know exactly what you mean. I tried mounting 225's on stock sevens, and this was a problem. With the new wheels, I'll be able to play with the spacers for a little better offset/positioning. But I'll also have the grinder on hand.

[Bill Verburg]

Heres a pic of the trailing arm and oil line mods I needed to do to get the 275/40x17s to fit. Iwas a little more conservative than the racers and only used 9.5x17 Kinesis. The lips weren't much of a problem in the back but the front lips were totally cut off, I had the same problem at the corner where the bumper and fender join and did the same angle cut with a grider. No problems hitting the tub, but again I was a little more conservative with 235/45 on 8s.

[Superman]

I asked a friend once how Randy got those big tires to fit into his wheel wells. Jason's response was truthful: "Technically, they don't."

It's all about traction.

[Colby]

I have 255/40/17 (on 17x9.5) and 225/45/17 (on 17x8) on my '84 Carrera and they BARELY fit; I don't know how you pulled off those monsters! My main area of clearance problems was the outer lips. Heavy rolling of the lips make them just barely fit. They were still rubbing on the inside of the flare, but I have since added stiffer sways, torsion bars, and shocks so that should help. Oh, I guess it helps to mention I also sit quite low; 24.5 rear, 25 front.

Colby

[MMARSH]

I guess that is another advantage of having a 72. I dont have to worry about the oil lines in the rear.

[stuttgart]

Doug,
that is a GREAT looking car... i like the color... it may be the color i go with if a ever respray the 78sc.. which is silver right now.. man I love those wheel's as well..... very sharp!!that is one HELL of a footprint your putting on the ground!! that is for sure!!

Eric Mckenna
78SC