EFI guys please stand up...
 

So.... I am on the verge of starting to wire up my Haltech that I mentioned a while back and I am now thinking about triggers. Currently I have an Accel dual sync distributor (includes cam and crank...), but am having a hard time figuring out how to configure it within the Haltech and neither Haltech or Accel want to give me a solid answer about how to set it up. So now I need to set up a hall effect crank signal and an hall effect cam trigger. The crank trigger I pretty much got figured out- My real question is:
What are the distributorless guys running for a cam sync/signal? I have already seen the clewett offerings and neither are very viable for me (although they are cool...)

I was planning on using the clewitt Turbo scavange pump with the can trigger. I need to upgrade the pump anyway to accommodate two turbos.

I like that idea and I like the product, but the wallet wont stand for it...
And now that I think about it- anyone using a hall effect crank trigger please post a pic...

I think DonE posted a pic just a couple of weeks ago when a discussion was on Bell IC's.

Found the pic.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1267051072.jpg

Why aren't the Clewett solutions viable? The part I use works well and is inexpensive. However, I could not use the GM mag sensor and had the mount machined to accept a Honeywell hall sensor.

Here's a pic of the original part with the GM sensor installed.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1267060106.jpg

Don- my problem is that I need the oil pump, so I can't locate it on the driver's side- and I cannot afford the billet aluminum pump with the intgrated trigger deal that clewett offers. Now I could do what you did with using the passenger side camshaft and the affordable clewett mount, but I would then need to machine the cam and that would equate to having to pull the cam out.

I don't have an air pump so I replaced the pulley with an aluminum spacer. I drilled and tapped the spacer for a magnet, then drilled a hole in the pulley housing for the sensor.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1267062025.jpg

I think if neither vendor will help you configure your stuff then I would sell their stuff and get some stuff that has support. I have megasquirt and there was definately no shortage of knowledgable people willing to help with any issue I had. The only one that did have an issue was the guy that sold the unit to me but I can understand that cause I got rid of his firmware and software right off the bat and went a different direction now my unit is configured for turbo application and is controlling a EDIS ignition. Considering the amount of money you had to have spent on your equipment they both should be trying to help you. The first thing to go south in a failing company is customer service I imagine that this economy is hurting their bottom line. As for my signal it only required a crank signal on a 36-1 crank wheel Good luck :(

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1267062322.jpg

The dual-sync should be the cheapest way to go, since you have it already. It is a Hall Effect for both cam and crank. It will work with Haltech. The wiring diagram for the distributor is here:

http://www.accel-dfi.com/pdf/Dual_Sync_wiring.pdf

If you need more help, just post the Haltech model that you are using and I will take you the rest of the way.

Thank all you guys!
David- I like your idea, can you give me some insight as to what kind of magnets you used (rare earth I assume) but how did you thread the magnets in there? Or is it simply a nut threaded to the stud and no magnet?
Gsmith- is that a traditional clewett mount or did you make that yourself or did you have it custom made?

I have decided that If I am going to do this I will use twin MoTec 8v sensors like David seems to have in his pump housing- one for cam one for crank. I am thinking for the crank trigger mount I will use a clewett mount and maybe thread it for the motec style

Ingenious, Dave.

Speedy Squirl- thank you too for that diagram- The wiring is not the part that scares me, it is setting it up with the Haltec in the computer. I have a platinum sport 2000 and when searching through the trigger drop down menu, it doesnt give me any option that comes close to the trigger style of the dual sync. The dual sync has a 6 relucter crank trigger and the cam is the traditional 1 window home. I am at a loss as how to program it and thats what has me thinking about changing it out.

...

delete

Kudos to speedy squirrel that is what the vendor should have done. That is actually from going super fast but I would go to clewitt which is were I should have gone the GSF stuff is not what I would call top notch but it was serviceable because the megatune software allows alot of adjustment. Do you pull your crank trigger off the flywheel or the pulley? My setup is not high tech but seems to get the job done the megasquirt with EDIS gives me 15 deg. retard under boost and is real easy to program.

This was my initial plan a few years ago before my project stalled. Since then I have gone twin turbo and need to upgrade the pump anyway so the Clewitt pump with trigger makes the most sense. It will be among my project leftover sell off when my car is up and running. I did make a custom aluminum crank pulley with a mount for the Motec mag sensor. It uses 12 rare earth magnets.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3458/...8650187a7e.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2595/...73ed8884d2.jpg

The sensor and screw in magnet are Motec sourced.

We use neodymium magnets in the trigger wheels we make. The magnets are secured in place with a dab of JB weld.. One of our engines regularly sees 9000 rpm and we have never lost a magnet.

Tried to secure the magnets by staking them in place, but they are very fragile and easily broken if you strike the punch to hard... so we use epoxy

I have a setup similar to 125shifter although I just used the airpump pulley to mount the magnet. , You have to be careful with the type of magnets, it needs to be alinco otherwise they lose magnetism when they get hot. I am surprised TimT has had success with neodymium, but I suppose it depends where it is. If you are near the oil pump it can get quite hot, especially if your exhaust headers run under it, as the stock header does.

These are the parts I used available from newark.com
sensor
honeywell 103SR13A-2
magnet 102 mg11

Anyone know if the Clewett scavenge pump/cam sensor will fit a true SC cam or does it require the drive extension of the 930 cam? I am also intrigued by the air pump pulley Hall sensor setup. Anyway to drive the pump pulley off of an SC cam?

How different is the sc cam from the 77 cam I have a tower setup and cam from a sportomatic motor that has the cam setup in the back for the sporto oil pump.

IIRC, Using the Clewett adapter, you do not have to machine the cam, nor take it out. When the cam in, you take out the freeze plug that is in the cam tower. Then drill and tap the end of the cam. Put in the bolt, and walla... Since the end is sealed up with the cam, there is no where for the shavings to go except on the ground....and NOT into the engine. I dont think you can still use the factory engine mounted oil cooler though. So you would have to run the oil filter mount there instead....

This is true- I can do it with the cam in the motor- but what about with the engine in the car? I would hate to have to pull it out. Maybe I could yank the axle and get to it easier... I do alread have the oil filter mount though, so most of the battle is won, just have to drill the cam and buy the clewett mount.

I did mine while the engine was in the car.... But I did not have the oil cooler mount on, nor did I have headers on.... I do not know if those items would make a difference or not...

I forgot to mention, I have a hot start problem related to this sensor. I know it's this sensor because Motec has an ocilloscope program built in to check sensors and my cam sensor drops almost to zero when hot. I was thinking it was the sensor or wiring harness, but maybe it's the magnet. :eek:

I would assume just about any aftermarket EFI system could control an EDIS6 and with only a crank sensor needed for operation why spend truck loads of money and pull your hair out? $100 gets you a complete EDIS6 system

Mine works great and I haven't needed any kind of ignition amplifier.

Yep - it's very easy with the motor in the car. When I replaced my cams last year, I didn't drop the motor for that either. If you want, Performance Developments makes a "super" magnet that screws into the end of the cam so just about any sensor will work. I kept my Honeywell and have the gap set to .040 with no trigger faults. Since my motor is in pieces, let me know if you would like any pics of the cam end or adapter.

Don, I would love to see some pics :)

Running sequential injection when you have oversized injectors.

+1

idle quality is enhanced using full sequential injection. Big injectors tent to create a rough idle condition so sequential becomes more important. Sequential is also more consistent among other things.

Checked out your pics on flickr nice job looking forward to a project like that myself in the future.

I emailed Richard about their combined cam driven scavenge pump and cam sensor and he says that it requires the 930 cam drive boss so it cannot be added to a true SC cam.

Did he say anything about the price or is it still 700+?

I didn't get that far. I have SC cams so there was no point. I would have to convert to 930 cam blank to use his. I already have a Tilton electric pump for scavenge and the Clewett cam sensor on the driver side cam so I will stick with that to avoid huge mods.

Here is a pic of the magnet that that I drilled and tapped while the cam was in the motor.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1267238871.jpg

This is what the adapter looks like with the sensor installed. The space around the sensor is recessed because that's how wide the GM sensor is compared to the Honeywell.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1267238889.jpg

This is just a shot from the side. With the gasket, I set the gap to .040.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1267238907.jpg

This is a shot of the exterior of the cam position sensor. I laid a piece of 5/16 aluminum over the original hole, welded over the hole, then drilled and tapped the hole for the Honeywell. The thread pitch on the sensor is 1 mm so each complete turn is 1 mm. Screw the sensor down until it touches the top of the magnet, then back it off 1/2 turn for .020 or one full turn for .040.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1267238941.jpg

Don- thank you for the pictures- they are very helpful. I am in a last ditch effort to try to figure out the accel distributor/ haltech programing and then I am going to go the way that you did for the cam sensor. Dont know for the crank pulley yet.

Haltech use to sell a switching trigger that when you set the magnets in the wheel all the magnets would be set in the wheel at north polarity but the magnet at TDC was set at south polarity and he switching sensor would tell the ECU when TDC was rached due to the one magnet being set to south pol. Not sure if this
method is still practiced with the Haltechs or not. Try contacting Mark from Hargett, he is good friends with a Haltech dealer that is one of really up with the latest and greatiest.

I assume the reasion of all this effort is to go fully sequential instead of batch at the injectors.

If the car has a distributor is seems you should be able to do it there instead of on the cam and it might be easier.

SC, you can have a drive mounted on your stock cam for about $200 if you really need it. I had this done many years ago for an MFI conversion. You do not need to start with a 930 blank.

That is good to know. Who did you have do this?