LMA-3 and LC-1 w. XD-16 gauge installation

[jsveb]

Hi guys

Well MY install is complete. I still need some help though, more on that later. Now I just wanna show you the final pictures.

What you see in this picture is: To the right behind the fuels lines you can see that braided sock that bundles the wires. The bundle goes with the OEM wires into the fuse panel.

At the bottom of the CDI you can just see the violet wire. This wire has been soldered to the Tach signal wire spade. In the cabin it plugs into the LMA-3 CH1 As seen in post #2

My spare wires are bundled on the top. The single fuse is not my work, it is for the AC.


Before I came this far, I decided to clean up the whole board. I ended up taking it all apart, gave it a good clean. All the plugs were cleaned with plug spray cleaner.
I think it turned out good. 30 minutes well spend.

In this picture you can see the Zork mounted, and the O2 senser is just hanging, and waiting for calibration.


This is how it sits now behind the bumper. I have made a heat shield out of copper, couldn't find 14 gage, so this will have to do for know. Will be watching how it handles the heat.



I didn't get to do calibration until later last night. I'll post that later this evening...

Sorry to end it this way, duty calls (family)

[cole930]

Jesper,

Absolutely outstanding my friend !!!! For a rookie this was quite an undertaking
and you have done a wonderful job.

The tach signal is a 5vdc square wave. I'm not familiar with the LM3 ( Billjam) is "the man" on the LM3, but also, in the manual it should tell you what type signals each input is capable of processing. Most Innovate systems have a dedicated RPM input.

Good thinking on pulling an extra wire with the bundle. Every harness I make I always put in 2-3 extra wires in case I have to add something or if I have a connection Issue.

Your copper heat sink should work fine, You can also find Innovate heat sinks on the web or Evil bay. You should be fine with what you have.

GREAT WORK and the ZORK IS KILLER !!!!

Cole

[dicklague]

I just started following this thread. Wow, I am amazed at how complex the Innovate system is to set up.

The complexity is beyond what I imagined. How old is this design?

You have done a terrific job. Do you have it working yet?

[jsveb]

Originally Posted by cole930

Jesper,

Absolutely outstanding my friend !!!! For a rookie this was quite an undertaking
and you have done a wonderful job.

The tach signal is a 5vdc square wave. I'm not familiar with the LM3 ( Billjam) is "the man" on the LM3, but also, in the manual it should tell you what type signals each input is capable of processing. Most Innovate systems have a dedicated RPM input.

Good thinking on pulling an extra wire with the bundle. Every harness I make I always put in 2-3 extra wires in case I have to add something or if I have a connection Issue.

Your copper heat sink should work fine, You can also find Innovate heat sinks on the web or Evil bay. You should be fine with what you have.

GREAT WORK and the ZORK IS KILLER !!!!

Cole

Thanks for all the compliments.

Good thinking, well Cole you know where the inspiration comes from...

About the Tach signal: I simply did what Billjam adviced me to. I have not yet dug into the LMA-3 functionality. I have issues that needs sortong first.

At around midnight last night. I finally got to the part where I could start to calibration process of the LC-1.

I have got the "quick guide from Innovate and printouts From the CDs that is included when you buy the stuff.

Just for info: THe procedures are not exactly the same depending on which guide you follow.

It all went great. It is just a step by step procedure.
Do you self a favour and read it all before you start the calibration, this way you are familiar with what will come next.

First power up is without the sensor hooked up the the LC-1. Then the unit perform two calibrations after which you push the small button on the XD-16 disp. three times, the disp. should say CAL you push it once more to confirm you want to calibrate. After calibration it should read o2/20.8 this is good and just means the sensor is measuring a very lean condition, which is only natural, because the sensor IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE HOOKED UNTIL THIS TEST/CAL HAS BEEN PERFORMED
This is decribed in detail in the INNOVATE manual.


After this it was late, so I didn't get to take it for a test run. I had a meeting in the morning - with some germans. I wanted to take the Porsche, because one of them drives an old Stingray. I thought it would be funny.
That didn't happen. When I came out to the car this morning, and powered it up. The XD-16 read ---
This means there is no sensor input (not hooked up properly) ARRRG. I ended up driving the FAM VAN -bugger.

I investigated this after I got home today. It was simply a plug that had come loose. I secured it with tape. Done deal. Lets go for a drive.

I powered up the car. It checked out OK. Started it. On a side note: That Zork is redicules

BUT, now I am getting to the current situation. This is where I really need you guys help!!!

To put it short: The thing don't work. When the car is off, but power is aplied to the system. It seems to work fine, but when the engine is running: The heater warms up the senser, but then it just says --- This does not make sense - or what?

I thought it might be the fact that the system didn't like the change in power when I crank, but it doesn't work even if I wait to power up the system until I have the engine running.
If I shut the car off (elec. power on) it says: o2/20.8 (flashing) which as mentioned in the manual should be OK.

For a while when driving it said CAL. I have tried to CAL it once more. The CAL goes according to the manual, but it still doesn't work..
CAL was done in free air.

ANY advice from you is greatly appreciated.

This was clearly not what I had hoped for

[cole930]

Jesper,

Man, you've made a lot of progress in a short period of time.

I'm afraid I can't help with this one because I'm not there yet.

Call the Innovate tech line they may be able to tell you exactly what it is
just over the phone.

Good Luck !!!!

Cole

[Thierry25]

Originally Posted by jsveb

To put it short: The thing don't work. When the car is off, but power is aplied to the system. It seems to work fine, but when the engine is running: The heater warms up the senser, but then it just says --- This does not make sense - or what?

I thought it might be the fact that the system didn't like the change in power when I crank, but it doesn't work even if I wait to power up the system until I have the engine running.
If I shut the car off (elec. power on) it says: o2/20.8 (flashing) which as mentioned in the manual should be OK.

For a while when driving it said CAL. I have tried to CAL it once more. The CAL goes according to the manual, but it still doesn't work..
CAL was done in free air.

ANY advice from you is greatly appreciated.

This was clearly not what I had hoped for

With my setup, it takes about 10 to 30 sec to heat up the sensor. During this period it display a kind of countdown. Then after that , it displays the real AFR value.

In fact, you have to remember that you must program the XD16 gauge. The flashing is maybe due to the "alarm range" which is not correctly set.

the " ---" means that your gauge doesn't recognize the LC1 sensor ( in the serial link) . You have to make sure the XD16 gauge is correctly programmed. You may also care about the serial cable .... sometime the 2.5 jacks are a bit tricky and easy to misconnected. Lastly, remember that the serial link must always be terminated by the jack plug ! So in your case, the jack terminaison should be plugged on the serial ouptut of the XD16. You should check again all these details....

As to the "CAL" you've got while you drive the car, it is not normal !!! The LC1 controller has 1 wire output which is used to launch the calibration procedure ( you can either push the button on XD16 or install a special button in your cockpit). I think that you do not use this wire in your setup. But if this wire is not correctly insulated and if it touch the ground , it can launch the calibration procedure at any time.

At rest , engine is turned off , the AFR value increase with time ....I already saw 40 or 50 ... no problem .

Keep us posted !

[jsveb]

Originally Posted by Thierry25

With my setup, it takes about 10 to 30 sec to heat up the sensor. During this period it display a kind of countdown. Then after that , it displays the real AFR value.

In fact, you have to remember that you must program the XD16 gauge. The flashing is maybe due to the "alarm range" which is not correctly set.

the " ---" means that your gauge doesn't recognize the LC1 sensor ( in the serial link) . You have to make sure the XD16 gauge is correctly programmed. You may also care about the serial cable .... sometime the 2.5 jacks are a bit tricky and easy to misconnected. Lastly, remember that the serial link must always be terminated by the jack plug ! So in your case, the jack terminaison should be plugged on the serial ouptut of the XD16. You should check again all these details....

As to the "CAL" you've got while you drive the car, it is not normal !!! The LC1 controller has 1 wire output which is used to launch the calibration procedure ( you can either push the button on XD16 or install a special button in your cockpit). I think that you do not use this wire in your setup. But if this wire is not correctly insulated and if it touch the ground , it can launch the calibration procedure at any time.

At rest , engine is turned off , the AFR value increase with time ....I already saw 40 or 50 ... no problem .

Keep us posted !

Thierry, Thank you once again for helping me out.

First I'll go through the way I have it hooked up. The input on the LC-1 has got a Term. plug and the output goes into the chassis. It has been extended with an extra cable I had to buy from Innovate. This connection (extension, did trick me once yesterday by unhooking. It is now taped securely). It plugs into the LMA-3 input port and from the LMA-3 output it goes to the XD-16 gauge thwich has got a Term. plug on its output. I checked all these connections yesterday as my initial trouble shooting. I would say it is fine

About sensor heating. When I power up the system. Is counts from 0-99. I think this is normal (according to the manual)???

The following paragraphs are my understanding of the instructions as they are laid out in the manual. I don't mean to argue what you say. I am just trying to give you an idea of how I understand this whole thing. Maybe this way you can see what I am doing wrong.

You say after you heating cycle it shows normal AFR. This is where mine when exposed to free air, it shows 20.8/o2 flashing (or was it 20.9 -not sure after reading the manual). However according to the manual chapter 4.5. this is normal indication for free air.

About programming the XD-16: According to the factory manual the XD-16 is preset (default) to AFR indication. It says it can be programmed as you mention, but it shouldn't ne necessary for basic AFR indication. I was planning on this, but first I just wanna make this thing work.

The "---" indication is a "No connection detected" signal. This is weird because the XD-16 does detect a connection when it is powered up and engine not running. The "---" indication only occurs engine running???
I would say that all the serial connections has been checked several times. However when I get a chance to go out in the garage later today. I'll check again

About the "CAL" indication. No, this is not normal and this has me confused. The black calibration wire has been isolated and tucked away in accordance with the LC-1 manual. I will check this again later today.

I would like for you to comment on this:
I think It might be power related, because when I crank the engine the power goes away from all the Innovate components. I know now this is not good for the LMA-3, but does this also affect the LC-1/XD-16?
According to my own test yesterday (read previous post) it does not seem to be related but still...?
I think I need to find a switched power source that does not black out when cranking the engine.

[jsveb]

Just back from the garage.

This is strange; after checking all the serial plugs, I sat in the car, turned on the power. The XD-16 indicated "H0", then started counting up, heating. It then stopped at fifty something. After another couple of sec. it went "---"

I tried again and after a couple of attemps. It counted all the way up to H99, and then went 20.8/o2, which should be normal indication. I let it sit there with this indication. It stayed this way.
I then tried again several times. This time it failed sonner in the heating cycle started at about mid twenties and in the last attempt it failed at H18 then went "---".

??????????????????????????????????????????

[jsveb]

Thank you guys. We have progress.

Cole advised me to call INNOVATE TECH support. I did that 15 minutes ago.

The problem was very simple. I had a Terminator plug in the XD-16 out port. It is not supposed to be there...

Now the Error indication has gone, so I took it for a spin. Well, it isn't all done yet. It indicates AFRs to be around 4,7-5.0. Once it has cooled down. I'll try to calibrate the thing again in free air. The precious calibration might be worthless with the term. åplug in the XD-16 output.

If this turns out good. There'll be beer at my house tonight -see ya

I'll report the results -of the calibration...

[jsveb]

I just finished calibrating again.

It is not there yet... The XD-16 displays between approx. 4.7-5.7

I need to know what this means, since it is not AFR as I know it, O2?

Maybe the XD-16 does need programming...

[jsveb]

I just bought a Serial to USB adapter.

I need a little help with this programming. The current channel showed in the XD-16 is LM-1_O2. I would like for this to be AFR not O2. I couldn't seem to change this (in the five minutes I had before my old crappy laptops ran out of BAT)

Where do i change this to AFR?

[john930]

The LM programmer software should let you do this.

Remove the XD-16 which you want to reprogram from the MTS serial chain. Insert the terminator plug in the serial IN of the XD-16 and the cable that goes to the computer to the serial OUT. Launch LM Programmer. Once in LM Programmer go to the "Input" tab. The LM Programmer will read the MTS record. You will now be able to select the channel that you want the XD-16 to display.

You should be able to select AFR or lambda to display.

[jsveb]

Originally Posted by john930

The LM programmer software should let you do this.

Remove the XD-16 which you want to reprogram from the MTS serial chain. Insert the terminator plug in the serial IN of the XD-16 and the cable that goes to the computer to the serial OUT. Launch LM Programmer. Once in LM Programmer go to the "Input" tab. The LM Programmer will read the MTS record. You will now be able to select the channel that you want the XD-16 to display.

You should be able to select AFR or lambda to display.

Hi

I have it all hooked as you say, but I still don't seem to have the "LM-1_AIR/FUEL" option that is mentioned in the manual. I can only use the "LM-1_O2". THe rest of the options are not programmed, I think, just generic channels for further expansion..

What I am saying is: The drop menu on the input tab does not seem to have the correct option on the "select input to be displayed".
I have clicked the "Display AFR" option below this on the screen.

Thanks for helping.

[dicklague]

Any progress?

[jwasbury]

I have the LC-1 and DL-32, so very similar to your set-up (I do not have the XD-16, however).

I don't have an option for LC_1_AFR either. I believe there is only one channel LC_1_O2 and you can select between AFR and Lambda display modes in the Logworks software "Channel" menu.

Curious if you have successfully monitored the output of the LC-1 or LMA-3 on your laptop using logworks. I wonder if your XD-16 is working correctly. The numbers you are seeing would not seem to be Lambda readings...it could be that the first digit isn't appearing so that instead of seeing a reading of 14.7, you see 4.7. Just a thought.

[jwasbury]

Here is a screenshot from logworks. I added the red circles to indicate where you select AFR or Lambda display

[jsveb]

Hi guys
not home at the moment. I hope to be able to go out in the garage later today.

[jsveb]

Originally Posted by jwasbury

I have the LC-1 and DL-32, so very similar to your set-up (I do not have the XD-16, however).

I don't have an option for LC_1_AFR either. I believe there is only one channel LC_1_O2 and you can select between AFR and Lambda display modes in the Logworks software "Channel" menu.

Curious if you have successfully monitored the output of the LC-1 or LMA-3 on your laptop using logworks. I wonder if your XD-16 is working correctly. The numbers you are seeing would not seem to be Lambda readings...it could be that the first digit isn't appearing so that instead of seeing a reading of 14.7, you see 4.7. Just a thought.

Just back form the garage. This seems tricky...

My menu setup is as you describe it. It is set up for O2 and AFR.

I have not yet been able to monitor anything using the labtop. I have just been out there for an hour.
About my indications; I have been thinking the same thing as you mention. I don't hope that is it. The AFR really doesn't change even when on boost, coasting etc. Well is does change a little but nothing like between 11.5 to about 14 as I would hope. once the car is warm it is pretty stable in the high fours, drops just a tad when I punch, but not much (this is just memory. I only took one drive in it yesterday).

When I went out there today, I started out with the XD-16 programming. I did some scale adjusting (chose 9.9-15) and then colored the gauge. IT was all done reading and following the manual.

THen I went on to the LMA-3. Again manual in hand. I did the CAL. Which I think went OK.
After that I started on the programming. Right in the beginning I had problems. I couldn't find a firmware file. This is the first thing to do -hmm. I skipped that and hope it wouldn't prevent anything.
MAybe it did, because from there it didn't go to well.
I tried to program the channels (The LMA-3 is plugged as laid out in the manual). When I hit the program button on the screen, nothing happened, it just froze.

I then (just to try something) opened the logworks software maybe I could see different AFR indications this way. I could not get any indications.

I also chacked the XD-16 indication, to see if my latest attempts had changed anything. Nothing. When the car is cold the indication read high 3s and then moves to about high 4s to low 5s

I don't know where to look and what to look for exept for the firmware update which I need to find - I guess.

Thank you for your help

[jsveb]

Originally Posted by jwasbury

...I wonder if your XD-16 is working correctly. The numbers you are seeing would not seem to be Lambda readings...it could be that the first digit isn't appearing so that instead of seeing a reading of 14.7, you see 4.7. Just a thought.

Guess why I quote this again...

I Some how managed to make the Logworks recognize the output from the XD-16 etc.

I can now read AFR on the labtop along with MAP, Gs, RPM... you know.

jwasbury, you are absolutely right. It is the XD-16 that does not display the first digit. This means two things.
-Something is wrong with the gauge
- I am running lean.

About the gauge, I guess I have to get a hold of Innovate. How does this work over here. How do I claim my warrenty if that's going to be the case?

AFR tuning, prepare yourself for A LOT of tuning questions soon. Yes, I have been reading about it already, but still this is new

See ya

[jsveb]

Well, guys it is time to wrap it up.

I think I, as far as installation goes, has reached my goal.

Everything is installed and operational in the car now.

The last hick-up with the missing first digit on the XD-16, was the LC-1 that needed programming.

I have just been out on a test drive. this is so cool, and this is still only the beginning.

The goal of this was (offcourse) to get better knowledge about the AFRs, to enable me to do proper tuning.

I warmed up the car, and did just a couple of short runs.
I've gotta add, that my old laptop is not up to the task. the BAT is dead so no logging yet. I have only tried this in the garage. It seems to be working fine - Logworks is even cooler. Can't wait to log those G's
It will be just like the old days where we checked the tires on the bike to see who had been all the way out on the edge.

Back on track...: Off boost 60mph@2000RPM; AFR 14,7-14.9. The gauge jumps just a litlle, I assume this is normal?
I guess it shouldn't go any leaner, but is is close to good, or what?

When I load it, WOT, the AFR goes down to low 10s. The lowest I saw was 9.9 once for a moment. This is maybe a bit too rich?

When I am cruising and push the pedal, AFR drops nicely. IT doesn't take too much to get them below 13.5.

Remember this is my first off: I have only read about this here on PP. I know you'll need a graph for proper interpretation. To do that I'll need a new laptop...would an Ipad work for this?

However I think I am in the safe range for normal driving. Tell me if I am wrong.

When I came back I checked idle AFR. It was up to low 15s - Needs adjusting.
By memory I adjusted in accordance with this table (which I found here in another thread):
The MG Experience: Library: CO% to Air Fuel Ratio (AFR) Table

I now realize my idle adjustments are not spot on since I adjusted for approx. 13.5. I see it should have been 13.38 (Crappy short term memory...). I could definetly hear it improved/smoothed out the idle though.

Well, this is it. Thank you guys for all your help. I simply couldn't have done it with out you all.
I also want to add something about Innovate. I have read many things good and bad. I must say my dealings with their products and their support has been flawless. I'd do it again.

Next up will be my tuning thread.

See you later